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Repeal obamacare completely

REPEAL OBAMACARE

  • Repeal within 2 years. Repeal Medicare also.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Repeal it and Medicare in whatever time it takes.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Keep the individual mandate. Repeal the rest and medicare also.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Keep Obamacare, but NO care for non-citizens.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    48
Correction: it is the best option that you have yet to see. ;)

i'm not entirely opposed to looking at other first world systems and taking the best parts from each one for a custom fit solution. what i am opposed to is the status quo and most of the PPACA because it doesn't control costs, and therefore probably won't work.
 
i'm not entirely opposed to looking at other first world systems and taking the best parts from each one for a custom fit solution.

One way that this endeavor fails is when one does not recognize differences in context. Socialism works well in small homogeneous groups. Removing it from that context is tomfoolery. When the solution includes the need to change demographics... fail.
 
One way that this endeavor fails is when one does not recognize differences in context. Socialism works well in small homogeneous groups. Removing it from that context is tomfoolery. When the solution includes the need to change demographics... fail.

it's basically just expanding medicare to let other people in. that has to be better than using emergency rooms as primary care for the uninsured while we all pay top dollar for it through our premiums.
 
Folks can play lots of games with statistics and use clever accounting to "prove" anything. The point is that adding 40 million people at an average of $5000/year in total medical care costs but having them pay an average of $1000/year in total premiums will not lower costs, it will raise them....
You will also reduce all sorts of other costs, many of which would be otherwise put on the government's tab.

A major reason for bankruptcies in the US is because of medical issues. You have a health problem, which can result in a lost job, which leads to lost health insurance, which can result in bankruptcies and unpaid medical costs that, in turn, drive up hospital costs. You also have the bankrupt people more likely to collect safety net services like TANF, SNAP, disability and so forth.

And FYI, emergency room rates did fall in MA, though it is not clear that it's a direct result of Romneycare: Emergency Department Visits Down For First Time Since Health Reform, Survey Finds | CommonHealth

At a minimum, Romneycare has certainly not devastated health care in MA, or the state's economy.


....a great deal for the insurance company (they get to keep 15% to 20% as overhead) but not so much of a good deal for "total costs" of medical care.
Obamacare is certainly a much better for the insurance companies than a single-payer system.

However, unless they are seriously cooking the books (which is possible), their net profit margin is a reasonable 3.7%Industry Browser - Healthcare - Health Care Plans Industry - Company List and has been in that range for at least a few years now. (In comparison, soft drink companies have an 11% net profit margin; Coca-Cola's margins are over 20%.)

Obamacare does throw insurers a large number of customers. However, insurers will also be expected to pay out a great deal more, since they can no longer deny pre-existing conditions, and yes, have to rebate revenues that used to go straight to the bottom line.

I.e. If their margins do go through the roof for the next few years, we'll see it. And can adjust aspects like the rebates, as required.

The benefits of Obamacare will almost certainly be less than its proponents insist, and its problems will almost certainly be nowhere near as bad as its detractors insist.
 
it's basically just expanding medicare to let other people in. that has to be better than using emergency rooms as primary care for the uninsured while we all pay top dollar for it through our premiums.

Medicare is the largest source of fraud in US history.
 
You will also reduce all sorts of other costs, many of which would be otherwise put on the government's tab.

A major reason for bankruptcies in the US is because of medical issues. You have a health problem, which can result in a lost job, which leads to lost health insurance, which can result in bankruptcies and unpaid medical costs that, in turn, drive up hospital costs. You also have the bankrupt people more likely to collect safety net services like TANF, SNAP, disability and so forth.

And FYI, emergency room rates did fall in MA, though it is not clear that it's a direct result of Romneycare: Emergency Department Visits Down For First Time Since Health Reform, Survey Finds | CommonHealth

At a minimum, Romneycare has certainly not devastated health care in MA, or the state's economy.



Obamacare is certainly a much better for the insurance companies than a single-payer system.

However, unless they are seriously cooking the books (which is possible), their net profit margin is a reasonable 3.7%Industry Browser - Healthcare - Health Care Plans Industry - Company List and has been in that range for at least a few years now. (In comparison, soft drink companies have an 11% net profit margin; Coca-Cola's margins are over 20%.)

Obamacare does throw insurers a large number of customers. However, insurers will also be expected to pay out a great deal more, since they can no longer deny pre-existing conditions, and yes, have to rebate revenues that used to go straight to the bottom line.

I.e. If their margins do go through the roof for the next few years, we'll see it. And can adjust aspects like the rebates, as required.

The benefits of Obamacare will almost certainly be less than its proponents insist, and its problems will almost certainly be nowhere near as bad as its detractors insist.

As they say in Missouri - show me. All sort of predictions and analogies abound but Obama, while calling for delay of the PPACA employer mandate, now tells us that 3 years is just not enough time to "implement them effectively". In other words, Obama is scared to death what economic harm that this 20,000 page PPACA nightmare may actually cause, immediately before the 2014 congessional elections, the last that he must endure for his final term as teleprompter in chief.
 
Keep the good parts of Obamacare, but repeal the other 99%.

IOW, repeal the individual mandate and the part that costs $150 million/year. Keep the part that repeals the insurance companies' exemption to anti-trust laws.
 
No.

We don't ask our soldiers to die.

We ask our soldiers to make those poor losers on the other side die for their country and/or cause.

What is this? Your wanting to play word games?
You quote one post, insult me, and blame another post?
In a perfect scenario, sure, I'd agree, we ask them only to win.
In reality, this is not what happens. We do not always win every skirmish and every battle, and sometimes we lose someone.
I have a few family members that could tell you all about it.
Anyhow, this is as silly as my wife nagging me about my use of "your" instead of "you're".
Word games.
 
We have 2 standards of medical care in this country:

#1 The best treatment on the entire planet for the wealthy and the insured.

#2 And treatment that is worse than many 3rd world countries and rates below nations such as Cuba, for the uninsured, the poor, and middle class small business owners.
#2 is blatantly false. No health insurance =/= no health care.
 
Actually, no it is not. If you add or no ability to pay. Then we are thrid world.
#2 is blatantly false. No health insurance =/= no health care.
 
Are you in favor of destroying this monster before it gets out of hand?

Remember, the oppression begins next January. Are you ready for it????
I've been hearing that penalties kick in starting in 2014: $95.00 for the first year, then it leaps up to something like $695.00 the next year, and perhaps into the thousands per year after that. Can anyone confirm that? If so, what's so affordable about that? Especially when you get zero coverage? Sounds more like an Affordable Tax Act (ATA) that certainly doesn't FEEL affordable.
 
Sure. If you have no insurance or abitlity to pay there are many third world countries whose citizens will get better healthcare.
Can you paraphrase that please? Thank you.
 
Rush said it yesterday. If Rush says it...By the way, the average american spends, actually I have seen figures somewhere between $5k to $8.2k per year on healthcare. Exactly how do you figure $700 is expensive?
I've been hearing that penalties kick in starting in 2014: $95.00 for the first year, then it leaps up to something like $695.00 the next year, and perhaps into the thousands per year after that. Can anyone confirm that? If so, what's so affordable about that? Especially when you get zero coverage? Sounds more like an Affordable Tax Act (ATA) that certainly doesn't FEEL affordable.
 
Sure. If you have no insurance or abitlity to pay there are many third world countries whose citizens will get better healthcare.
What about Medicaid? What about free clinics? What about doctors who donate their time to the uninsured? My uncle treated people like Sinatra and Elvis, but he also donated 30% of his time to patients with no insurance. I don't think they were receiving third world care.
 
The reason people go wait in the ER is because there is NO clinic system to speak of in the US. Not all doctors are bad guys, in fact, i work closely with dozens and almost all are good guys, but our system is still based on profit. That is really not an arguable point. We have all kinds of facilites for the profitable stuff, but if it aint profitable, it is scarce. If you are a poor person in the inner city and you get pneumonia you will go to the ER, the Doc will write a script for abx, the patient wont have to cash to fill the script and will come back when they cant breathe. So insted of the $20 for abx it will cost thousands if the patient doesnt die or even if he does. So we, the rest of us with money, pay bizillions for something that could have been avereted with $20.
What about Medicaid? What about free clinics? What about doctors who donate their time to the uninsured? My uncle treated people like Sinatra and Elvis, but he also donated 30% of his time to patients with no insurance. I don't think they were receiving third world care.
 
Rush said it yesterday. If Rush says it...By the way, the average american spends, actually I have seen figures somewhere between $5k to $8.2k per year on healthcare. Exactly how do you figure $700 is expensive?
ANYTHING is expensive when you're getting nothing in return.

My God, is the Left really this stupid?
 
Yea, goodness you really class up a thread.
ANYTHING is expensive when you're getting nothing in return.

My God, is the Left really this stupid?
 
ANYTHING is expensive when you're getting nothing in return.

My God, is the Left really this stupid?

You are getting health insurance. And trust it comes in handy when you walk into a heart transplant center as a patient.
 
The reason people go wait in the ER is because there is NO clinic system to speak of in the US. Not all doctors are bad guys, in fact, i work closely with dozens and almost all are good guys, but our system is still based on profit. That is really not an arguable point. We have all kinds of facilites for the profitable stuff, but if it aint profitable, it is scarce. If you are a poor person in the inner city and you get pneumonia you will go to the ER, the Doc will write a script for abx, the patient wont have to cash to fill the script and will come back when they cant breathe. So insted of the $20 for abx it will cost thousands if the patient doesnt die or even if he does. So we, the rest of us with money, pay bizillions for something that could have been avereted with $20.
You ignored my questions about Medicaid and free clinics.
 
There are not enough free clinics to make a difference AEB all the pateints in the ER, and medicaid takes time to sign up for. I dont know the exact qualifiations but I imagine you can make too much to qualify for it and still not be able to afford healthcare.
You ignored my questions about Medicaid and free clinics.
 
There are not enough free clinics to make a difference AEB all the pateints in the ER, and medicaid takes time to sign up for. I dont know the exact qualifiations but I imagine you can make too much to qualify for it and still not be able to afford healthcare.
Do you still assert that these amount to 3rd world care?
 
Yes, if you live in an inner city and have no means to pay your health care is not as good as in some third world countries. Why do you keep asking?
Do you still assert that these amount to 3rd world care?
 
#2 is blatantly false. No health insurance =/= no health care.

Actually, no it is not. If you add or no ability to pay. Then we are thrid world.

MPG you are absolutely wrong.
And I can tell you have never been seriously ill while having no health care.

There are dozens of Nations considered third world that have far better health care for the poor.
Take Cuba for example.

In America, you are completely out of luck if you are uninsured.
I have lived it both ways. As a (small) small business owner, I had no employer to provide coverage. Without the combination of Obama care AND my private insurance, I'd be well under way to stage 2 cancer by now.
I have a very powerful personal story but I plan to write a large paper on that sometime in the future and I am not going to "half ass" explain it now.

Until you try to get help for your colon cancer or whatever ales you while having no insurance, you really just have no idea how pathetic "the emergency" room is as a solution. Need a stage 1 cancer removed? They'll take your blood pressure.... that is about it.

The Right seems so hideously cruel to me. But I guess maybe that some of them are simply like you, not a bad person at all, just someone that fails to realize just how bad the uninsured have it.
Its not that they "are" treated like 3rd world patients. They could only dream to be treated so well.
 
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