View Poll Results: REPEAL OBAMACARE

Voters
61. You may not vote on this poll
  • Repeal immediately and completely. Repeal Medicare also.

    9 14.75%
  • Repeal within 2 years. Repeal Medicare also.

    0 0%
  • Repeal it and Medicare in whatever time it takes.

    0 0%
  • Repeal it. Keep Medicare like it is

    17 27.87%
  • Repeal only the individual mandate. Keep Medicare

    3 4.92%
  • Keep the individual mandate. Repeal the rest and medicare also.

    0 0%
  • Keep Obamacare like it is. I love it.

    11 18.03%
  • Keep Obamacare, but NO care for non-citizens.

    0 0%
  • Keep Obamacare, but NO care for illegal aliens.

    4 6.56%
  • Other (specify)

    17 27.87%
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Thread: Repeal obamacare completely

  1. #181
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    Re: Repeal obamacare completely

    Quote Originally Posted by Painter View Post
    I've yet to hear anyone put forth a number that represents the savings the entire system will experience once there are no longer unpaid bills.
    Especially from the hospital side.

    I have another for you too.
    I had a $14,500 dollar surgery. But I was first billed $108,000 before my insurance negotiated the price down.
    Now... if I had no insurance, $108.000.00 is what I would have owed.
    When I did not pay, they would have written off the 108 thousand on their taxes.
    Multiply that scenario times millions of cases and that is what is happening everywhere around the Nation.
    Hospitals are faking their books. Not paying taxes. Showing loss on paper and money in their pocket.
    There will also be a sudden and rather large tax revenue coming from hospitals once they no longer show these fake losses.
    Hospitals will show the profit and then have to reduce their prices substantially, while also paying more taxes.
    If you had negotiated with the hospital and paid the bill directly, you could probably have gotten by with about $5,000 total for surgeon, anesthesiologist, hospital. The so-called "pre-insurance" number is just a puff piece to make it look like insurance is getting a good deal for you, but actually the insurance amount is drastically inflated over what you could negotiate for cash. Beware of "provider networks."
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
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  2. #182
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    Re: Repeal obamacare completely

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    Perhaps. ObamaCare is designed to fail, and when the fecal matter hits the fan the libs will blame the greedy private insurance companies and demand that the government take over health insurance with a single-payer plan. Then when that fails, they will double down and insist on the government taking over the delivery of health care itself. That will reduce us to the dependent status of an Indian reservation and we will be well on the way to the perfect liberal view of a three tiered society: shepherds to make the decisions, sheepdogs to enforce those decisions, and sheep to be sheared.
    You just heard this. Because I was just watching Fox News and it is the brand new RW talking point.
    Of course Fox could of got it from Rush yesterday and had a delay in putting out the new talking point.

  3. #183
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    Re: Repeal obamacare completely

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    If you had negotiated with the hospital and paid the bill directly, you could probably have gotten by with about $5,000 total for surgeon, anesthesiologist, hospital. The so-called "pre-insurance" number is just a puff piece to make it look like insurance is getting a good deal for you, but actually the insurance amount is drastically inflated over what you could negotiate for cash. Beware of "provider networks."
    I agree about the puff piece part.
    But from my experience you can never negotiate with a hospital on your own without it affecting your credit.
    They will agree to settle for less. But then on your credit report it says that you settled for less and this is a strike against you.
    In the end, you are sacrificing something... the new house you want, or maybe even the ability to rent an apartment in a good neighborhood.

  4. #184
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    Re: Repeal obamacare completely

    Quote Originally Posted by Painter View Post
    I still do not see the unknown variables reflected into the estimate.
    But again, for the purpose of debate lets just assume they and you, are correct.

    How much is an American life worth?
    108,000,000,000.000 per year is what you say it will increase by.
    And if it would save 45,000 American citizen's lives per year.
    That makes an American's life worth 2,400,000.00
    With about 100,000,000.00 Americans paying income tax each year, that makes an American life worth around 24 cents.

    For 24 cents from each tax payer, we can prevent these 45,000 deaths each year.

    Now I might not feel that everyone's life is worth 24 cents. But I would still pay it to save them.
    For starters, $2.4 million is a lot of money. If we were to say that each life is priceless, the speed limits on our roads would be around 5 MPH.

    Secondly, now you're the one who's leaving things out. We've been focusing on uninsured people, but what about everyone else? For the vast majority of people in this country, the quality of care is quite high. That's largely because of our wealth which is largely because of avoiding things like Obamacare. For most of us, Obamacare won't have an immediate negative impact on the quality of our health care, and it probably won't cause a recession either, but the economy won't grow as fast as it would've without it. "It is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high and tax revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now ... Cutting taxes now is not to incur a budget deficit, but to achieve the more prosperous, expanding economy which can bring a budget surplus." - JFK
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  5. #185
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    Re: Repeal obamacare completely

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    For starters, $2.4 million is a lot of money. If we were to say that each life is priceless, the speed limits on our roads would be around 5 MPH.

    Secondly, now you're the one who's leaving things out. We've been focusing on uninsured people, but what about everyone else? For the vast majority of people in this country, the quality of care is quite high. That's largely because of our wealth which is largely because of avoiding things like Obamacare. For most of us, Obamacare won't have an immediate negative impact on the quality of our health care, and it probably won't cause a recession either, but the economy won't grow as fast as it would've without it. "It is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high and tax revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now ... Cutting taxes now is not to incur a budget deficit, but to achieve the more prosperous, expanding economy which can bring a budget surplus." - JFK
    This is the most honest and reasonable post I have read from a Right Winger on this issue.
    I commend you for that.

    I can only say that I simply disagree with you on the priority.
    I place the lives of those too rich for medicaid and too poor for insurance ahead of my own extra luxuries.
    If I only have to pay an extra 24 cents a year to save 45 thousand lives... I'd rather donate an extra 100 and let you keep your quarter.

  6. #186
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    Re: Repeal obamacare completely

    Quote Originally Posted by Painter View Post
    You just heard this. Because I was just watching Fox News and it is the brand new RW talking point.
    Of course Fox could of got it from Rush yesterday and had a delay in putting out the new talking point.
    Actually, it has been obvious for some time that ObamaCare was designed to fail. Harry Reid laid out the plot line when he announced that it is a step on the way to single payer. Please try to keep up.
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
    - Abraham Lincoln

  7. #187
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    Re: Repeal obamacare completely

    There was no category for my vote, so I voted other. I don't LOVE it as it is, but it is a tremendous start in the right direction. What needs to be fixed? Repeal the stupid Republican "mandate" idea and replace it with a public option. THAT is the ACA that should have passed in the first place. It would have been much better without the failed Republican plan in it.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  8. #188
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    Re: Repeal obamacare completely

    Quote Originally Posted by Painter View Post
    This is the most honest and reasonable post I have read from a Right Winger on this issue.
    I commend you for that.
    I'm not that conservative on economic issues and I'm quite liberal on social issues. What made you think I was a right winger? The # of people who oppose Obamacare is significantly larger than the # of people who support it. It isn't just the right wing who opposes it.





    Quote Originally Posted by Painter View Post
    I can only say that I simply disagree with you on the priority.
    I place the lives of those too rich for medicaid and too poor for insurance ahead of my own extra luxuries.
    If I only have to pay an extra 24 cents a year to save 45 thousand lives... I'd rather donate an extra 100 and let you keep your quarter.
    Is a family of four who makes $88k/year, really too poor to afford insurance? The average annual cost of health insurance is $9k/household. Obamacare is gonna push up that #, which is another thing that I don't like about it, and what about the individual mandate? The cons of Obamacare easily outweigh the pros.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  9. #189
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    Re: Repeal obamacare completely

    I listened to that on Rush on my way back from Ohio on wednesday, almost word for word. Of course He is just an entertainer and none of them listen to him to find out what to think. Just sayin...
    Quote Originally Posted by Painter View Post
    You just heard this. Because I was just watching Fox News and it is the brand new RW talking point.
    Of course Fox could of got it from Rush yesterday and had a delay in putting out the new talking point.
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

  10. #190
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    Re: Repeal obamacare completely

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    In other words "Communism is here to stay. Get over it already."

    I'm just not gonna do that, dude.
    Feel free to use your First Amendment rights to speak for the loud minority. Which, if you recall, lost the election.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    I don't claim to be an expert, but I probably know more than everyone in this forum debating the topic.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton

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