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Is this racist?

Does racism occur in this video?

  • Total voters
    33
Aunt Spiker said:
Once again (for the fourth time in this thread) - I am not saying "it's not."

Maybe if I don't write a bunch of stuff after saying that you'll get it.
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I understand that. Which is really besides the point. I'm addressing that the variables you place on this particular example don't really work because of the overwhelming body of work that really accompanies it. It isn't a stand alone example. So while you're not saying it isn't, your argument presents a case to pause. I don't think that case holds up. I've been explaining why.
 
CanadaJohn said:
That's fair - but you only know I'm a conservative because I self-identify here as such. If you believe that you have experience here that leads you to believe that all white conservatives are racists, then you are acting on your experience and that's all a person can do. My example was far more focused than yours was. In my example, it would be racism if the store owner mistrusted young black men in every situation, not just the situation in his own store. In your example, you've based your assumption on me, personally, not me, situationally - that's the difference I was trying to outline.
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I appreciate you actually considering my point of view. Just so you know I do not dismiss yours. I understand how it can appear as just practical or realistic. However, I think there is a greater goal to contribute to here and i believe we all have a greater obligation to it if we as individuals are going to progress equality. That is, that I should no sooner assume that you a racist because you are a white conservative, even if I am surrounded by experience, than anyone else should first that all blacks are thugs until they prove otherwise. The majority are not.
 
opendebate said:
I appreciate you actually considering my point of view. Just so you know I do not dismiss yours. I understand how it can appear as just practical or realistic. However, I think there is a greater goal to contribute to here and i believe we all have a greater obligation to it if we as individuals are going to progress equality. That is, that I should no sooner assume that you a racist because you are a white conservative, even if I am surrounded by experience, than anyone else should first that all blacks are thugs until they prove otherwise. The majority are not.
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And I agree with that - but if you link back to the OP and the video shown, you'd have to admit that the white people didn't assume the black youth was a thug - they asked him questions such as "is that your bike?" - they were suspicious, but the other white people were also suspicious of the white youth and asked him similar questions. What I noticed, and perhaps you didn't, or maybe I put more emphasis on it, was that when the white people asked the white youth questions, he was pretty cryptic in his answers, not flat out saying he was stealing the bike whereas the black youth flat out admitted he was stealing it by saying things like "no, but it will be mine soon".

There is so much not revealed in this video, so much context unknown, that it's convenient to claim they are a bunch of racists when in fact they're not. I don't think anyone has claimed that the three black women are racists even though they let the white youth go without trying to stop him and they said, when interviewed, that if it was a black youth they would have thought he was stealing the bike. The three black women had the exact same reaction to the situation as the white people did but in yours and other's views, only the white people are racists. Could it not simply be that all of these people have experience that tells them that young black youth are more likely to be stealing the bike than young white youth? Could they simply be reacting to their experience in life and not out of any racial animous or hatred?
 
Racist? OH NO! Don't be ridiculous! There's absolutely no racism here!


But hey ...I got a good look at that black kid who seemed to be stealing that bike.
He looked like he was up to no good.
He looked like he was on drugs or something.
Something about him wasn't right.
At one point I think he had his hand in his waist-band.
These assholes always get away...
Someone should have shot him in self defense.
Where is Zimmerman when we need him???



/sarc:2wave:
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Christ - again, I'm not ignoring it.

I'm trying to explore the entire situation.

Maybe I should say it this way: why do people respond differently when it comes to race? There's more to this than "I don't LIKE you because you're black." - there's a deeper, heavier topic that people are not thinking of at all. Instead, people are flopping around and freaking out, and not trying to understand what is truly going on.

How can you fix something if you refuse to understand WHAT it is?

But it is funny (maybe I should say ironic) - in recent situations, when violence is only acted out against whites - people claim there's no racism at all. . . but give a video of some random people treating a black person differently, then there's crime afoot.

Odd - and THAT - the entire 'differential treatment on all parts' makes me wonder what is going on in people's heads UNDERNEATH what we are seeing. If wanting to talk about this deep underneath is a PROBLEM then we're ****ed - and stuck existing in this **** climate where race is considered the only center of anything bad and we don't clime out of our nation's own version of the dark ages.

Obvious to me that 'having a real conversation about race' really means 'let's only look at everything through a 'you're racist!' lens' rather than 'let's try to understand everything that's going on in people's heads.

I see that everyone else is watering it down by pointing fingers to the 'you're just a racist bitch' easy out.

People - though - are more complicated. . . can't deny that.

For example: how different would things be if they were in a predominately black area, and set this up with two white offenders and one black?
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I think you're right about how this discussion is really missing the point with its' focus on if it's racist or not and whether the witnesses in this video think black people are inferior, or more likely to be criminals. It really has to do with how we think about things in general. I think it is very perceptive of you to notice that

However, I do want to point something out about your last remark. You seem to think that things would have gone differently if the area had been mostly black. You may be right about that but do you realize that would only reinforce what the psychologist said in the video? If peoples' reactions changed based on a change in the racial context, then that only confirms the psychologists claims about how race affects our thoughts and our behavior.
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
No, they are clearly not. Why would you even bother arguing to the contrary?
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I was being sarcastic. I just couldn't believe you thought it was necessary to say that.
 
Maybe there should be more projects with fake crimes to punk 911. It's ok to do so IF it is for a good political agenda.

Of course, the video is crap in terms of value not only for selection of different clothing - the whites in soft blue and the black youth in flaming red, plus the white guy with a white cap... plus very friendly white youths and defensive, aggressive black youth...

But also there is no counter part of a white guy in a park predominately African-American.

This was a white-guilt project designed to prove itself. I liberal teacher or prof being politically correct and incompetent. But, predictably, everyone just goes past all those flaws and debates this as if it is has any legitimacy because the conclusion is assumed accurate regardless of methodology.
 
Cardinal said:
I was being sarcastic. I just couldn't believe you thought it was necessary to say that.
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uh, earlier you wrote

Cardinal said:
Given that the video is accurate, it's reasonable to assume that the witnesses felt the actions (or presence, or whatever) of the black thief were worse and worthy of response than those of the white thief, even as the actions were identical.
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This implies that the people viewing the incident were the same ...
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
uh, earlier you wrote



This implies that the people viewing the incident were the same ...
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Nope that's just what you read into it. It's amazing how people think studies can only work if only the same subjects encounter the same environmental factors.
 
Cardinal said:
Nope that's just what you read into it. It's amazing how people think studies can only work if only the same subjects encounter the same environmental factors.
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1) "it's reasonable to assume that the witnesses felt the actions of the black thief were worse and worthy of response than those of the white thief"

No creative reading necessary. You're directly comparing their reaction to both incidents and deducing they felt one was worse. Clearly "they" could not decide one was worse unless they viewed both

2) Yes, it's very important to control for variables in any "study". And a huge variable here would be the individuals in question.
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
1) "it's reasonable to assume that the witnesses felt the actions of the black thief were worse and worthy of response than those of the white thief"

No creative reading necessary. You're directly comparing their reaction to both incidents and deducing they felt one was worse. Clearly "they" could not decide one was worse unless they viewed both

2) Yes, it's very important to control for variables in any "study". And a huge variable here would be the individuals in question.
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You don't know how studies are conducted. For medical studies the same people are not exposed to both the drugs and the placebos. Large sample groups are used.
 
Cardinal said:
You don't know how studies are conducted. For medical studies the same people are not exposed to both the drugs and the placebos. Large sample groups are used.
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Yes, I more than understand how studies are conducted, and those large samples are chosen to directly minimize variables that will impact the outcome of the study. Here you're trying to deduce if people are acting in a racist manner. Clearly one of the large variables here, since we are measuring individual human interactions, is the individual themselves. Because we can't say someone acted differently between individual 1) and 2) when the didn't didn't even interact with them

If that goes over your head, I honestly don't know what to tell you, besides you should probably just walk away from the discussion
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
Clearly one of the large variables here, since we are measuring individual human interactions, is the individual themselves. Because we can't say someone acted differently between individual 1) and 2) when the didn't didn't even interact with them
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Re-read your post slowly (I chose the part that I interpreted to be the heart of your post), read it from the perspective of someone not in your head with attention to grammar and syntax, because the result is coming across as gibberish.
 
Cardinal said:
Re-read your post slowly (I chose the part that I interpreted to be the heart of your post), read it from the perspective of someone not in your head with attention to grammar and syntax, because the result is coming across as gibberish.
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excuse the typos: "when the(y) didn't even interact with them".

What I am pointing out is that you are trying to draw an inference from the differences between the two interactions (the one between the white guy and the one between the black guy). The reason this is problematic is you can't be sure there was actually a difference. Because they are not the same individual (their motives, thoughts, and life experiences are all different and would go into shaping such behavior). For all we know, the person who called the cops one the black kid would have called the cops on the white kid, as well.

It's very simple
 
I voted yes but didn't watch the video.
If you have to ask, the answer is probably yes. :)

Similarly, "I'm not racist, but..." is invariably followed by something racist.
 
Deuce said:
I voted yes but didn't watch the video.
If you have to ask, the answer is probably yes. :)
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Is the depiction of Apu racist?

View attachment 67152949

Deuce said:
Similarly, "I'm not racist, but..." is invariably followed by something racist.
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DP would, I think, make you proud today. Not only did nobody here say "I'm not a racist, but..", there wasn't even the obligatory "It's okay, I can say black people are inferior because I have a black friend."
 
The show was edited obviously and to come to any conclusion is to take the bate of the writers. If this was a study linked too by a poster the very pseudoscience nature of the study would be ripped to pieces. Just because this was on tv makes things no different. This wasnt a real study at all therefor no real conclusion can be made from this piece of entertainment.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
The show was edited obviously and to come to any conclusion is to take the bate of the writers. If this was a study linked too by a poster the very pseudoscience nature of the study would be ripped to pieces. Just because this was on tv makes things no different. This wasnt a real study at all therefor no real conclusion can be made from this piece of entertainment.
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Well nobody (I really, really hope) actually thinks the show is legit. It's just a discussion piece, as in "Given that the following actually happened as is, is this racism?"
 
Phys251 said:
I posted this video on another thread, but I think it deserves its own discussion.

This is a direct, yes-or-no question: Does racism occur in this video?

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/shrug don't know, don't care. If I had seen either stealing it, would of called the cops. But like usual in these things, notice the differences in dress and appearance of the two. White guy, jeans, regular sized T-shirt, hat on backwards while working. Black guy, pants sagging, oversized shirt, hat on crooked like gangbanger style. Hmm, which would draw more attention? Try dressing the white guy the same as the black guy and then see what happens. Is it really the persons race or the social perception of the way they are dressed?
 
DVSentinel said:
/shrug don't know, don't care. If I had seen either stealing it, would of called the cops. But like usual in these things, notice the differences in dress and appearance of the two. White guy, jeans, regular sized T-shirt, hat on backwards while working. Black guy, pants sagging, oversized shirt, hat on crooked like gangbanger style. Hmm, which would draw more attention? Try dressing the white guy the same as the black guy and then see what happens. Is it really the persons race or the social perception of the way they are dressed?
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That's right, the black kid's hat was crooked.

That must be it.
 
Cardinal said:
Well nobody (I really, really hope) actually thinks the show is legit. It's just a discussion piece, as in "Given that the following actually happened as is, is this racism?"
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There are definitely some people that would judge a situation like that on the looks of the person using tools to liberate a bike.

I bet though that if you put myself in place of the white kid that no one would bother to address me (at least of those people in the video)that they would have just called the cops and kept their distance. My skin is pretty damn white, but I also have long hair and wouldnt be dressed as neatly as those people in the park. Hell walking through parking lots leads too people locking their car doors until Im a safe distance away. Its not because I am white its because I am large and a metalhead.

Exchange that clean looking white kid with a metalhead his same age and they would have been calling the cops more often. Plus that black kid didnt look like a bad kid at all. Put him in some gang looking costume and I doubt any of those park goers would have actually spoke to the kid, a secret phone call would have been all of what those wimpy looking people would have done.


But without talking to the people form the video in length we have no idea why they were saying anything to the black kid at all. As far as we know they thought as I did that he looked like a good kid making a stupid decision. The element alone could turn the results on their head and mean that the park goers were actually trying to help the black kid and didnt care at all about the white kid.


This all turns in a big what if and that is why I dismiss things like this as bs.
 
BTW if I came upon someone trying to steal such a lame department store bike I would just laugh at them.
 
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