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Is this racist?

Does racism occur in this video?

  • Total voters
    33
Arbo said:
Again I must comment that the lack of understanding about what 'racism' is, is utterly amazing. No wonder it's thrown around so much, as so few actually have a clue what it is.
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Why don't you enlighten us then
 
MaggieD said:
At approximately 12 minutes, the psychologist himself gives the reason. Roughly paraphrased: "This kind of situation goes on all the time. You associate blacks with crime, and whites with being good." That is NOT racism. Even the two black women early on say, "Whites don't usually run around with burglary tools." That is NOT racism. Call it stereotyping...call it profiling. But. It is not racism.

I'll go on to say that the white guy had, probably, 30+ pounds on the black kid. That makes a significant difference in one's likelihood to confront a thief. It was quite apparent that many of the people passing the white kid thought he was stealing the bike. The question then becomes, "Why didn't more people confront him?" That is the real difference in the video. Why didn't more people confront him? NOT why did people think he wasn't stealing the bike.
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The video is meant to illustrate how people judge others based on their appearance. The pretty girl got lots of help, the white kid was given the benefit of the doubt by 99 out of 100 passersby and the black kid had a mob surrounding him in a matter of minutes.

Here is the thing I found odd about that. The black kid was often very respectful, calling one man sir as the guy was walking away with his tools. The white kids responses where snarky and threatening yet only two people challenged him. In addition, the level of anger in the voices of the people who challenged the black kid was glaring and in disproportion to the event at hand. So where exactly did that hostility come from? They came in with it.

It you do not want to call it an example of racist thinking, which it is, call it an example of white privilege. The white kid was given the benefit of the doubt because he was a clean cut white kid, the black kid was a clean cut black kid who was not given the same benefit of the doubt.
 
opendebate said:
The video is meant to illustrate how people judge others based on their appearance. The pretty girl got lots of help, the white kid was given the benefit of the doubt by 99 out of 100 passersby and the black kid had a mob surrounding him in a matter of minutes.

Here is the thing I found odd about that. The black kid was often very respectful, calling one man sir as the guy was walking away with his tools. The white kids responses where snarky and threatening yet only two people challenged him. In addition, the level of anger in the voices of the people who challenged the black kid was glaring and in disproportion to the event at hand. So where exactly did that hostility come from? They came in with it.

It you do not want to call it an example of racist thinking, which it is, call it an example of white privilege. The white kid was given the benefit of the doubt because he was a clean cut white kid, the black kid was a clean cut black kid who was not given the same benefit of the doubt.
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I'm really amazed at the number of people trying to draw inferences from this. Why not just watch porn for tips on picking up women?

"hey, baby I want to slap my balls on your face and open your butthole like a bag of fritos"
 
The obvious differences in clothing skewers the matter. to jump past that clear problem is to begin by asserting racism and then drawing that conclusion.

The female has to been taken out of the "racism" picture as many older men were raised to be gentlemen and most criminal-types are male. It comes down to the white youth and black youth. And different clothing was selected, as were the different attitudes and statements of both. The white youth was very smiling, casual, and unconcerned. The black youth was defensive, evasion and argumentative.

I think "xenophobia" (difference) is more shown than racism, but there are too many variables.
 
I have a couple of problems with the project itself.

First, it is illegal to make frivolous calls to 911, and I would think that would include generating false calls to 911 by staging a fake crime. Whoever put this together should be ticketed for that.

Second, making innocent people become the subject of someone's zippy pinhead seriously flawed political/social point video is wrong in my opinion.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Well - speak for the others . . . I wouldn't have been involved with anyone because I wouldn't have noticed. I don't make a habit of talking to strangers long enough to determine what they're doing, and if they should be doing it.

There are a lot more people like me who walked by and gave no notice. . . and instead, these few who were involved to any degree will be labeled as racist - and unfortunately, some people would label me and any other white person as one, too, no matter what, purely because we share one trait. . . . and that pisses me off.

Back to group appeasement theories - if they had one white person stand up and make a stink with #1 or #3 - would others have joined in? I think they would have. It would have been interesting to find out.

Again - I'm discussing theories that are applied to social standards to understand all the many ways in which humans work. I'm not just focusing on the racist aspect of things. . .and that shouldn't be construed as anything other than taking a quantitative approach to examining the entire situation.
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The thing is, over and over again, no one stands up and makes a stink. Over and over again in these type of exercises, minorities come out on the wrong end. Not once, not twice, but over and over and over again. At some point you have to address the reason.
 
CanadaJohn said:
No.

In my view, and perhaps you hold a different view, racism requires a certain level of irrational behaviour that is driven solely by a dislike for a person's race. It would be racism, in my view, to be the white owner of a store and deny blacks to shop there - that's just not good business and hurting yourself irrationally. It would not be racism, however, in my view, to be the white owner of a store and keep a close watch on young black male customers because in the past you've had trouble with young black males shoplifting or holding you up. That's just being smart and protecting your property and your interests.
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No. You can be quite rational while practicing racism.

Take this definition:

A common trait among the sociological definitions of racism is that they define racism backwards from its results. The results of racism include, among other things, social inequality based on apparent racial affiliation. Thus, anything that causes social inequality becomes racism, regardless of intent. This allows the possibility of unconscious racism, evident in the definition offered by the Christian Anti-Racism Initiative in South Africa:

Racism is essentially a conscious or unconscious belief in the inherent superiority of one race over another\others and thereby the right by that race to use power to dominate.[5]

Daniel Hindes - Essasys

Or this one:

Racism
Is any action or attitude, conscious or unconscious, that subordinates an individual or group based on skin colour or race. It can be enacted individually or institutionally.

Source: US Civil Rights Commission

Defining Race Racism and Racial Discrimination

You can be quite rational and do these things.

Some people take loss of revenue as a cost of doing business, prioritizing one one thing over another. Sometimes this make very good sense. But it isn't irrational in and of itself. It's no more rational or irrational to ignore someone clearly stealing a bike.
 
This instance makes it difficult to claim otherwise. The assumptions we carry influence what ends up happening society-wide.
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
I'm really amazed at the number of people trying to draw inferences from this. Why not just watch porn for tips on picking up women?
"hey, baby I want to slap my balls on your face and open your butthole like a bag of fritos"
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WTF does that even mean.
 
CanadaJohn said:
No.

In my view, and perhaps you hold a different view, racism requires a certain level of irrational behaviour that is driven solely by a dislike for a person's race. It would be racism, in my view, to be the white owner of a store and deny blacks to shop there - that's just not good business and hurting yourself irrationally. It would not be racism, however, in my view, to be the white owner of a store and keep a close watch on young black male customers because in the past you've had trouble with young black males shoplifting or holding you up. That's just being smart and protecting your property and your interests.
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So then you condone the idea of me assume you are a racist because you are a white conservative and holding that view about you, perhaps acting on it, until you prove otherwise?
 
Boo Radley said:
No. You can be quite rational while practicing racism.

Take this definition:

A common trait among the sociological definitions of racism is that they define racism backwards from its results. The results of racism include, among other things, social inequality based on apparent racial affiliation. Thus, anything that causes social inequality becomes racism, regardless of intent. This allows the possibility of unconscious racism, evident in the definition offered by the Christian Anti-Racism Initiative in South Africa:

Racism is essentially a conscious or unconscious belief in the inherent superiority of one race over another\others and thereby the right by that race to use power to dominate.[5]

Daniel Hindes - Essasys

Or this one:

Racism
Is any action or attitude, conscious or unconscious, that subordinates an individual or group based on skin colour or race. It can be enacted individually or institutionally.

Source: US Civil Rights Commission

Defining Race Racism and Racial Discrimination

You can be quite rational and do these things.

Some people take loss of revenue as a cost of doing business, prioritizing one one thing over another. Sometimes this make very good sense. But it isn't irrational in and of itself. It's no more rational or irrational to ignore someone clearly stealing a bike.
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Sorry, racism is an irrational act based on race as witnessed by someone else who can view the irrationality of the act. People, themselves, don't believe they're being irrational when they are - otherwise, they wouldn't be. I'm not buying into your attempt to create or find racism where it doesn't exist - I'm not invested in the racism industry that needs perpetuation to justify existence.
 
opendebate said:
So then you condone the idea of me assume you are a racist because you are a white conservative and holding that view about you, perhaps acting on it, until you prove otherwise?
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If I could get a translation, I might be able or inclined to respond.
 
opendebate said:
Do you really want to know what I was trying to say or were you blowing me off?
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If you want to tell me what your were trying to say, I'll have a look - I can't "blow you off" if I don't know what you're talking about.
 
Boo Radley said:
The thing is, over and over again, no one stands up and makes a stink. Over and over again in these type of exercises, minorities come out on the wrong end. Not once, not twice, but over and over and over again. At some point you have to address the reason.
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Christ - again, I'm not ignoring it.

I'm trying to explore the entire situation.

Maybe I should say it this way: why do people respond differently when it comes to race? There's more to this than "I don't LIKE you because you're black." - there's a deeper, heavier topic that people are not thinking of at all. Instead, people are flopping around and freaking out, and not trying to understand what is truly going on.

How can you fix something if you refuse to understand WHAT it is?

But it is funny (maybe I should say ironic) - in recent situations, when violence is only acted out against whites - people claim there's no racism at all. . . but give a video of some random people treating a black person differently, then there's crime afoot.

Odd - and THAT - the entire 'differential treatment on all parts' makes me wonder what is going on in people's heads UNDERNEATH what we are seeing. If wanting to talk about this deep underneath is a PROBLEM then we're ****ed - and stuck existing in this **** climate where race is considered the only center of anything bad and we don't clime out of our nation's own version of the dark ages.

Obvious to me that 'having a real conversation about race' really means 'let's only look at everything through a 'you're racist!' lens' rather than 'let's try to understand everything that's going on in people's heads.

I see that everyone else is watering it down by pointing fingers to the 'you're just a racist bitch' easy out.

People - though - are more complicated. . . can't deny that.

For example: how different would things be if they were in a predominately black area, and set this up with two white offenders and one black?
 
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CanadaJohn said:
Sorry, racism is an irrational act based on race as witnessed by someone else who can view the irrationality of the act. People, themselves, don't believe they're being irrational when they are - otherwise, they wouldn't be. I'm not buying into your attempt to create or find racism where it doesn't exist - I'm not invested in the racism industry that needs perpetuation to justify existence.
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Oh, I think they understand. But they justify it. They have used the Bible. Crime statistics. people here have sat and justified the act of watching someone steal and doing little to knowing when the white guy was doing, but acting quickly when a perosn of color was doing. We all rationalize, and while often poor reasoning is involved, it is rational in this respect:

being in or characterized by full possession of one's reason; sane; lucid: The patient appeared perfectly rational.

Rational | Define Rational at Dictionary.com
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Christ - again, I'm not ignoring it.

I'm trying to explore the entire situation.

Maybe I should say it this way: why do people respond differently when it comes to race? There's more to this than "I don't LIKE you because you're black." - there's a deeper, heavier topic that people are not thinking of at all. Instead, people are flopping around and freaking out, and not trying to understand what is truly going on.

How can you fix something if you refuse to understand WHAT it is?

But it is funny (maybe I should say ironic) - in recent situations, when violence is only acted out against whites - people claim there's no racism at all. . . but give a video of some random people treating a black person differently, then there's crime afoot.

Odd - and THAT - the entire 'differential treatment on all parts' makes me wonder what is going on in people's heads UNDERNEATH what we are seeing. If wanting to talk about this deep underneath is a PROBLEM then we're ****ed - and stuck existing in this **** climate where race is considered the only center of anything bad and we don't clime out of our nation's own version of the dark ages.

Obvious to me that 'having a real conversation about race' really means 'let's only look at everything through a 'you're racist!' lens' rather than 'let's try to understand everything that's going on in people's heads.

I see that everyone else is watering it down by pointing fingers to the 'you're just a racist bitch' easy out.

People - though - are more complicated. . . can't deny that.

For example: how different would things be if they were in a predominately black area, and set this up with two white offenders and one black?
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Racism is more than I don't like you because you're black. And no, a real discussion has to start with rather we do it knowing we do it or not, we treat minorities differently. There is more than enough evidence to show that. This evidence is just one more small piece added to a long list of evidence.

And in fact, these studies have been done in reverse. The odd thing, there's no real change in the reaction. Whites were largely ignored, and blacks stopped nearly instantly. None of this is really new.

And yes, people are complicated, which only means they may not be intentional. It may well be that a wide variety of societal influences have helped create an unintentional racism. But treating one race different than another based purely on race is at the end of the day racist.
 
CanadaJohn said:
If you want to tell me what your were trying to say, I'll have a look - I can't "blow you off" if I don't know what you're talking about.
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You were offering your definition of racism. I was responding to the part where you said:

“to be the white owner of a store and keep a close watch on young black male customers because in the past you've had trouble with young black males shoplifting or holding you up. That's just being smart and protecting your property and your interests.”

I reversed the roles by asking you this:

“So then you condone the idea of me assuming you are a racist because you are a white conservative and holding that view about you, perhaps acting on it, until you prove otherwise?”

I see this as an example of painting everyone with the same brush. Keeping an eye on the kids because they are “behaving” in a way that causes concern is different than keeping an eye on them because they are black and you have had trouble with black kids. If I assume you are a racist because you are a white conservative I am also painting you with a broad brush.
 
Boo Radley said:
Racism is more than I don't like you because you're black. And no, a real discussion has to start with rather we do it knowing we do it or not, we treat minorities differently. There is more than enough evidence to show that. This evidence is just one more small piece added to a long list of evidence.

And in fact, these studies have been done in reverse. The odd thing, there's no real change in the reaction. Whites were largely ignored, and blacks stopped nearly instantly. None of this is really new.

And yes, people are complicated, which only means they may not be intentional. It may well be that a wide variety of societal influences have helped create an unintentional racism. But treating one race different than another based purely on race is at the end of the day racist.
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did you even read her post?
 
Boo Radley said:
Racism is more than I don't like you because you're black. And no, a real discussion has to start with rather we do it knowing we do it or not, we treat minorities differently. There is more than enough evidence to show that. This evidence is just one more small piece added to a long list of evidence.

And in fact, these studies have been done in reverse. The odd thing, there's no real change in the reaction. Whites were largely ignored, and blacks stopped nearly instantly. None of this is really new.

And yes, people are complicated, which only means they may not be intentional. It may well be that a wide variety of societal influences have helped create an unintentional racism. But treating one race different than another based purely on race is at the end of the day racist.
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Once again (for the fourth time in this thread) - I am not saying "it's not."

Maybe if I don't write a bunch of stuff after saying that you'll get it.
 
opendebate said:
You were offering your definition of racism. I was responding to the part where you said:

“to be the white owner of a store and keep a close watch on young black male customers because in the past you've had trouble with young black males shoplifting or holding you up. That's just being smart and protecting your property and your interests.”

I reversed the roles by asking you this:

“So then you condone the idea of me assuming you are a racist because you are a white conservative and holding that view about you, perhaps acting on it, until you prove otherwise?”

I see this as an example of painting everyone with the same brush. Keeping an eye on the kids because they are “behaving” in a way that causes concern is different than keeping an eye on them because they are black and you have had trouble with black kids. If I assume you are a racist because you are a white conservative I am also painting you with a broad brush.
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That's fair - but you only know I'm a conservative because I self-identify here as such. If you believe that you have experience here that leads you to believe that all white conservatives are racists, then you are acting on your experience and that's all a person can do. My example was far more focused than yours was. In my example, it would be racism if the store owner mistrusted young black men in every situation, not just the situation in his own store. In your example, you've based your assumption on me, personally, not me, situationally - that's the difference I was trying to outline.
 
I only got about half way through but the problem here is that the sets of people walking by were different, also if you'll notice predominantly it seemed the one's who took action were older. Further what park were they in -- in what town? It seemed predominantly white despite putting the token black ladies in there for the image of balance.
 
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