View Poll Results: does god exist ?

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  • yes

    53 51.46%
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    39 37.86%
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    15 14.56%
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    17 16.50%
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Thread: do you believe god exists ?

  1. #111
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    Re: do you believe god exists ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    It would be a very sad world if there was no God. To think that this life is all there is.
    I think this encapsulates the difficulty people have with coming to terms with the possibility of a Universe that is absent God and functions on an entirely natural basis. Too many atheists I think either shield themselves from this point or neglect to bring it up. At the end of the day death is terrifying and infinitely moreso if you do not believe there is an afterlife or a God to give hope to its continuance or its purpose. Beyond mere mortality the notion that you are inescapably alone in the Universe is equally scary.

    There are no good answers for how to confront these issues. However it doesn't mean that this admittedly more frightening reality isn't true. Just because it would be a happier existence with a loving God and an afterlife does not mean there is one.

    I've spent a long time coming to terms with that and I personally do not think there is a God or a broader metaphysical reason for our existence.

    But it doesn't mean that is a happier realization and it doesn't obviate the fact that belief and the security of faith is at least superficially more emotionally protective.

  2. #112
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    Re: do you believe god exists ?

    When this subject comes up I think back to Katrina. There were hundreds of heavily faithful people waiting for somekind of help praying and it did not come and they were killed.

    I also think of his representative on Earth, self-appointed I know but, and if God does nothing to help him, then how could he exist.

    I see the Katrina thing as proof that there is no God watching and judging.

    It just doesn't make sense to me the people that survive something like Katrina and then thank God for saving their lives or for not completely destroying everything they had, just most of it.

  3. #113
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    Re: do you believe god exists ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Monserrat View Post
    I think you misunderstood my meaning and I use wiki as a basic link for starting information (it's very good as a starting point) which I posted for you for more information, I have books on the topic. I said it depends on whether or not it's pagan because the term pagan is all encompassing. For some people it means any belief system that isn't christian, or any belief system that isn't from the Abrahamic faiths. Others define it as solely earth based belief systems, which it doesn't fit that definition too well unless the practitioner has taken on that form of paradigm.

    It has to do with whatever God or Gods or Goddesses they are taking on in their shifting paradigms.

    I don't know what would make you think that I don't think there are modern witches and pagans.
    Well, this part of your quote that I put in bold kind of sounds like you are saying that. Also, I don't think God really plays a factor in this belief. Or at least not "the god" to which Medusa is referring. Perhaps multiple pagan gods. It has a lot to do with spells and magic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monserrat View Post
    It's a modern magic form, so I suppose it depends of your definition of pagan and witchcraft but that's besides the point, the point is there's at least one belief system that involves switching belief systems.

    "Some common sources of inspiration include such diverse areas as science fiction, scientific theories, traditional ceremonial magic, neoshamanism, Eastern philosophy, world religions, and individual experimentation. Despite tremendous individual variation, chaos magicians (sometimes called "chaotes"[2]) often work with chaotic and humorous paradigms, such as the worship of Hundun from Taoism or Eris from Discordianism, and it is common for chaotes to believe in whatever god suits their current paradigm and discard it when necessary."

    Chaos magic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  4. #114
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    opendebate's Avatar
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    Re: do you believe god exists ?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I would say fascinating not frightening.
    I thought you were a Christian?

  5. #115
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    Re: do you believe god exists ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I think this encapsulates the difficulty people have with coming to terms with the possibility of a Universe that is absent God and functions on an entirely natural basis. Too many atheists I think either shield themselves from this point or neglect to bring it up. At the end of the day death is terrifying and infinitely moreso if you do not believe there is an afterlife or a God to give hope to its continuance or its purpose. Beyond mere mortality the notion that you are inescapably alone in the Universe is equally scary.

    There are no good answers for how to confront these issues. However it doesn't mean that this admittedly more frightening reality isn't true. Just because it would be a happier existence with a loving God and an afterlife does not mean there is one.

    I've spent a long time coming to terms with that and I personally do not think there is a God or a broader metaphysical reason for our existence.

    But it doesn't mean that is a happier realization and it doesn't obviate the fact that belief and the security of faith is at least superficially more emotionally protective.
    Even if I wanted the peace of mind that belief in a god or an afterlife purports to deliver, belief or non belief is not a choice I can make consciously. There is no way to will myself into belief, it is either substantiated and my mind accepts the substantiation, or it is unsubstantiated and my mind rejects the belief on these grounds (and none of the "look all around you" arguments from incredulity - that horse pill of fallacious reasoning does not fit down this throat).

    If not being able to force a particular belief and coming to terms with what appears to be the finality of life is what you consider to be shielding, then so be it - I have no choice in the matter, I have to deal with it, and I am quite accepting of it. Although I do not want to cease to exist any time soon, I find the prospect of living for an eternity to be infinitely more scary. How monotonous that would be. first 10k years, hmmm probably not all that bad, first 100,000 years and this perpetual ecstasy would start to lose its novelty, a billion years!? no freaking way, a billion billion years and still an eternity ahead with no way out? no thank you.
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  6. #116
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    Re: do you believe god exists ?

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    Even if I wanted the peace of mind that belief in a god or an afterlife purports to deliver, belief or non belief is not a choice I can make consciously. There is no way to will myself into belief, it is either substantiated and my mind accepts the substantiation, or it is unsubstantiated and my mind rejects the belief on these grounds (and none of the "look all around you" arguments from incredulity - that horse pill of fallacious reasoning does not fit down this throat).

    If not being able to force a particular belief and coming to terms with what appears to be the finality of life is what you consider to be shielding, then so be it - I have no choice in the matter, I have to deal with it, and I am quite accepting of it. Although I do not want to cease to exist any time soon, I find the prospect of living for an eternity to be infinitely more scary. How monotonous that would be. first 10k years, hmmm probably not all that bad, first 100,000 years and this perpetual ecstasy would start to lose its novelty, a billion years!? no freaking way, a billion billion years and still an eternity ahead with no way out? no thank you.
    Sure and I'm definitely not claiming there is a way to will yourself into belief. Believe me I tried! What I'm trying to say is that I think people underestimate both how inextricably linked religion and even a very intangible faith can be to someones life and how powerful a psychological defense mechanism against abandoning that kind of emotional and existential security can be. This isn't even about the fundamentalist or the deeply religious, I'm talking about everyone from your faintly religious Christian to your reform Jew. You'll be confronted with "Oh but there has to be something!" Why? Because the alternative is understandably frightening.

    I agree you cannot close Pandora's box, but it doesn't mean the box isn't hard to open in the first place and with good reason.

    Edit: Though I do fundamentally disagree on the idea of living indefinitely. I do desire to live as long as I desire, I think death is the greatest tragedy in existence and we rationalize it's purpose to comfort ourselves. I'm a big advocate of transhumanist trends in technology and I'd love to avail myself of it's benefits one day. It's also why I'm keen on cryonics.
    Last edited by Sherman123; 08-28-13 at 01:51 PM.

  7. #117
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    Re: do you believe god exists ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No you didn't. You asked if gods exist, not whether or not one believes gods exist. No one can know if gods exist, maybe but it doesn't seem so likely.
    How? How is it impossible to know? What if Thor walked down the street and stopped to have a chat with you, and then threw lightning around and flew away to slay a frost giant a few blocks over. It would be a trivial thing for a god to reveal themself to us, so why can't we know? And how would we know that we can't know? I understand that we can't logically rule out gods completely, but we could certainly find them if they were there and had any interest in making themselves know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I think this encapsulates the difficulty people have with coming to terms with the possibility of a Universe that is absent God and functions on an entirely natural basis. Too many atheists I think either shield themselves from this point or neglect to bring it up. At the end of the day death is terrifying and infinitely moreso if you do not believe there is an afterlife or a God to give hope to its continuance or its purpose. Beyond mere mortality the notion that you are inescapably alone in the Universe is equally scary.
    Not really, no. Being temporary and only around for a century or so isn't really that scary unless you're wasting your life and not living it to the fullest. Or if someone convinced you as a child that there was more and you feel like it's being taken away, even thought it was never really there. Death isn't scary at all to me, and immortality sounds awful. And the universe having some kind of purpose that I don't really have a choice about, that seems worse. That means I'm just a cog in a machine that I don't even understand. That means my hopes, my dreams, my ambitions, my feelings, none of them matter. The only way to really be free or to matter at all is for the universe to just be here, and what effects I have on it are up to me and me alone.

    Also, we're probably not alone in the universe. There are probably other lifeforms out there somewhere.
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  8. #118
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    Re: do you believe god exists ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    How? How is it impossible to know? What if Thor walked down the street and stopped to have a chat with you, and then threw lightning around and flew away to slay a frost giant a few blocks over. It would be a trivial thing for a god to reveal themself to us, so why can't we know? And how would we know that we can't know? I understand that we can't logically rule out gods completely, but we could certainly find them if they were there and had any interest in making themselves know.
    Gods are defined as immeasurable quantities, if something is immeasurable knowledge about its existence cannot be had.

    If anything you listed above ever happens, let me know. Otherwise, there is no direct measurement and thus you cannot have knowledge.
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  9. #119
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    Re: do you believe god exists ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    vote ,thank you
    Yes.....

  10. #120
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    Re: do you believe god exists ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    It would be a very sad world if there was no God. To think that this life is all there is.
    Why? If there's no god, then human suffering isn't caused by an omnipotent force that is too lazy to be bothered to help us or is "testing" us, but rather something we may be able to solve. No God means the possibility of less human suffering.

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