View Poll Results: Would you vote for or consider voting for an Atheist for any public office?

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  • Yes

    71 91.03%
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    7 8.97%
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Thread: Would you vote for an Atheist?

  1. #81
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    Re: Would you vote for an Atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    In view of my post, I am confused at how you can be an athiest and believe in natural rights. What distinction are you making?
    Why couldn't an atheist believe in natural rights? As with all human morality, the understanding of natural rights is rooted in our intelligence and empathy. As Kant argues, natural rights can be understood through intelligence alone; there is no need for a god. You define a need for it, and that's fine, but it's not required. An atheist can just as easily understand and accept natural rights.

    And your contention against atheists is really rooted in that, the acceptance of natural rights. As such, you could vote for an atheist so long as they understand the concept and necessity of natural rights. Yes?
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  2. #82
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    Re: Would you vote for an Atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    No moral compass, no vote.
    Better no compass than a faulty one which points in the wrong direction, I reckon.

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    A "like" and oh so true..particularly in the land of Islam.......here....not much of a problem, IMO.
    So, you never heard of Rick Santorum?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    No. Atheist are not fit to hold office. Our rights are from God. And since our rights come from God man cannot take them away. But when people stop believing that our rights come from God they start believing that our rights are "granted" by the state. And if the state can "grant" rights it can take those rights away. Atheist will have no philosophical aversion to stripping us our our individual, God-given rights.
    Which 'God-given' rights have you discovered to be impossible to remove? When you show me one that is truly 'inalienable', I may convert to some kind of deism.
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  3. #83
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    Re: Would you vote for an Atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil900 View Post
    I would like to ask as a DP poll though, would you vote for or consider voting for an Atheist in any public office, not just the Presidency.
    Sure, I would. It would depend on what I perceived as character traits, and stance on various issues. So far in my life, the atheists I have known were of good character, and were reason-based thinkers. As long as the candidate didn't bring his/her atheism into the legislative process, as a means of denying others the right to express their own non-atheist beliefs, I would have no problem with whatever he did, or did not believe.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  4. #84
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    Re: Would you vote for an Atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    In view of my post, I am confused at how you can be an athiest and believe in natural rights. What distinction are you making?
    I would back up Ikari's response. There's no need to declare natural rights valid only because you have a person in a smock telling you there's a deity (that you've never seen/heard/experienced) backing that up. To me that almost seems shallow. Atheists are able to emphasize the natural value and agency of human beings, because they are intellegent and empathetic human beings themselves.

  5. #85
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    Re: Would you vote for an Atheist?

    I'd be much more worried about theists having no moral compass than atheists. Someone who needs an external source to know right from wrong would be the person lacking a moral compass, not someone who can tell just fine on their own. As Ikari said, our moral compasses are part of our evolution. Our definitions of right and wrong stem from our experience as species, where generally being kind to each other made us thrive. When we try to emulate the specific mores of a long dead culture, it harms us far more than it helps us.

    We have far more to fear from candidates who emphasize their religion and would make decisions based on it while governing than we do from one that has no religion at all.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  6. #86
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    Re: Would you vote for an Atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Why couldn't an atheist believe in natural rights? As with all human morality, the understanding of natural rights is rooted in our intelligence and empathy. As Kant argues, natural rights can be understood through intelligence alone; there is no need for a god. You define a need for it, and that's fine, but it's not required. An atheist can just as easily understand and accept natural rights.

    And your contention against atheists is really rooted in that, the acceptance of natural rights. As such, you could vote for an atheist so long as they understand the concept and necessity of natural rights. Yes?
    No. Natural rights are rooted in God. Natural law = God's law.

    You can not believe in Natural rights without first believing in God.
    "Liberalism is a doctrine fostered by a delusional and illogical people and rabidly promoted by the mainstream media and ruling elite which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - unknown

  7. #87
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    Re: Would you vote for an Atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    No. Natural rights are rooted in God. Natural law = God's law.

    You can not believe in Natural rights without first believing in God.
    pure bs
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  8. #88
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    Re: Would you vote for an Atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    No. Natural rights are rooted in God. Natural law = God's law.

    You can not believe in Natural rights without first believing in God.
    If you see Natural Rights as those being found in Nature, which is nonsense, then you are incorrect. Who invented or created Nature becomes the issue then. God, a big dog with fleas, or the Universe itself? You don't have to believe in God to rights as Natural.

  9. #89
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    Re: Would you vote for an Atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    No. Natural rights are rooted in God. Natural law = God's law.

    You can not believe in Natural rights without first believing in God.
    That's incorrect, you only want to make that point but there's no argument to support it.

    So what you are saying is that your major contention is the acceptance of natural rights, but even if an atheist were to accept natural rights you still couldn't vote for them because you don't think it's possible for a human to not believe in god while simultaneously accepting that at base all humans are human. It's not the most self-consistent of all arguments.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #90
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    Re: Would you vote for an Atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    The Declaration of Independence
    “When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impelthem to the separation.”

    The term “the law of nature” was a very specific term coined by Sir EdwardCoke…

    Sir Edward Coke (1552-1634)
    “The law of nature is that which God at the time of creation of the nature ofman infused into his heart, for his preservation and direction…the moral law,called the law of nature.”

    This same term was later used by William Blackstone who wrote a law textbook. If you were a lawyer, as was Thomas Jefferson, you studied Blackstone.

    William Blackstone
    “…as man depends absolutely upon his Maker for everything, it is necessary that he should, in all points, conform to his Maker’s will. This will of his Maker is called the law of nature…This law of nature…dictated by God Himself is, ofcourse, superior in obligation to any other. It is binding over all the globe,in all countries, and at all times: no human laws are of any validity incontrary to this; and such of them as are valid derive all their force, and all their authority…from this original.”

    “Upon these two foundations, the law of nature and the law of revelation,depend all human laws; that is to say, no human laws should be suffered to contradict these.”
    - Commentaries on the Law (A lawtextbook / 2,500 copies sold in America prior to the Revolutionary War)

    "Natural law" is God's law.
    If the founders really thought the only person capable of protecting natural rights granted by god, why does Article six of the consitution specifically prohibit religious tests for public office?
    "Why is it that if you take advantage of a corporate tax break you're a smart businessman, but if you take advantage of something so you don't go hungry, you're a moocher?"
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