View Poll Results: Would you vote for or consider voting for an Atheist for any public office?

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    71 91.03%
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Thread: Would you vote for an Atheist?

  1. #131
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    Re: Would you vote for an Atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    Actually I said atheists are not fit to hold office--not that they are less moral.

    Difference.

    You should learn what you're talking about before calling "BS".
    lol you said they were not fit to hold office and spewed some BS (and that is what it was pure BS) about inalienable rights coming from god.
    Now first off unless you can prove there is a god your claim of any rights coming from god are total bunk.
    if somehow you can prove god exists after everyone else in history has failed you would then have to prove these god given rights.
    since you cannot but fail on the first point I call 100% BS on you.
    prove me wrong, prove your god exists or accept your fail

    *edit* I would say that someone who thinks like you is totally unfit for any elected office
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
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  2. #132
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    Re: Would you vote for an Atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Life, liberty, and property form the basis of natural rights. Property is expanded not only to the physical form but to privacy (all privacy rights stem from property). They exist as they exist, these are abstract concepts born of intellect and empathy and we can understand that at heart all humans are human and because we are all fundamentally the same there are limits to force you can apply to me even if you hold monopoly of force. We are not protected by rights, we need to protect rights. Enforcement is mostly done through proper construct of government and law, and on extremes at the end of a gun.
    Ikari..I'm not trying to be a nuisance or arrogant about this, but "Natural Rights"...I can't buy. "Legal and/or Constitutional rights"...I can.

    Here is the only place we'll find "Life, Liberty, and Property" in our Constitution:

    Amendment V:

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


    and

    AMENDMENT XIV SECTION 1.

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


    John Locke published those things as "god given rights". Jefferson and Madison both read "Second Treatise of Governments" so you'll find a number of great points of wisdom and good common sense, which some of those things were incorporated in but the D.I. and Constitution. But that's where it ends.

    Yes... Jefferson used Locke's quote, but it was a revision and came out as "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" when writing the Declaration of Independence... but he was far from the prince of religion, and written in a way of getting King Georges attention regarding the abusive power he used on American colonists. So he used some "flowery language"...very poetic. But this wasn't a message from god to Jefferson to give to King George.

    Sectarian factions have tried like hell to make Jefferson's wording in the D.I. just that.


    As an atheist...I just don't understand the meaning of natural rights. As a citizen...I can only see Life, Liberty, and Property as being rights described as part of "Due Process"....that's it. No Mas...

    I guess I'm being over the top with this reply for one reason and one reason only...TO STRIP AWAY GOD-GIVEN NATURAL RIGHTS, which theist so love to believe that they have. NONSENSE!

    Respectfully....And Thanks...

  3. #133
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    Re: Would you vote for an Atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Not all the founders were religious, and often times for the period religion was evoked for propaganda purposes.
    They were all religious though some had some different ideas regarding religion. Franklin is often seen as the most irreligous (according to some) and yet here is a quote from him:

    "We have arrived, Mr. President . . . at a very momentous and interesting crisis in our deliberations. Hitherto our views have been as harmonious, and our progress as great as could reasonably have been expected. But now an unlooked for and formidable obstacle is thrown in our way, which threatens to arrest our course, and, if not skillfully removed, to render all our fond hopes of a constitution abortive.

    It is, however, to be feared that the members of this Convention are not in a temper, at this moment, to approach the subject in which we differ, in this spirit. I would, therefore, propose, Mr. President, that, without proceeding further in this business at this time, the Convention shall adjourn for three days, in order to let the present ferment pass off, and to afford time for a more full, free, and dispassionate investigation of the subject; and I would earnestly recommend to the members of this Convention, that they spend the time of this recess, not in associating with their own party, and devising new arguments to fortify themselves in their old opinions, but that they mix with members of opposite sentiments, lend a patient ear to their reasonings, and candidly allow them all the weight to which they may be entitled; and when we assemble again, I hope it will be with a determination to form a constitution, if not such an one as we can individually, and in all respects, approve, yet the best, which, under existing circumstances, can be obtained.

    (Here the countenance of Washington brightened, and a cheering ray seemed to break in upon the gloom which had recently covered our political horizon.) The doctor continued:

    Before I sit down, Mr. President, I will suggest another matter; and I am really surprised that it has not been proposed by some other member at an earlier period of our deliberations. I will suggest, Mr. President, that propriety of nominating and appointing, before we separate, a chaplain to this Convention, whose duty it shall be uniformly to assemble with us, and introduce the business of each day by and address to the Creator of the universe, and the Governor of all nations, beseeching Him to preside in our council, enlighten our minds with a portion of heavenly wisdom, influence our hearts with a love of truth and justice, and crown our labors with complete and abundant success!

    The doctor sat down, and never did I [General Dayton] behold a countenance at once so dignified and delighted as was that of Washington, at the close of the address! Nor were the members of the Convention, generally less affected. The words of the venerable Franklin fell upon our ears with a weight and authority, even greater than we may suppose an oracle to have had in a Roman Senate! A silent admiration superseded, for a moment, the expression of that assent and approbation which was strongly marked on almost every countenance."



    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    If gods were so important they would have been in the contract that established the government; the Constitution. Yet they are not.
    Gods would have been in the contract that...what?!

    Try again.
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  4. #134
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    Re: Would you vote for an Atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Ikari..I'm not trying to be a nuisance or arrogant about this, but "Natural Rights"...I can't buy. "Legal and/or Constitutional rights"...I can.

    Here is the only place we'll find "Life, Liberty, and Property" in our Constitution:

    Amendment V:

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


    and

    AMENDMENT XIV SECTION 1.

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


    John Locke published those things as "god given rights". Jefferson and Madison both read "Second Treatise of Governments" so you'll find a number of great points of wisdom and good common sense, which some of those things were incorporated in but the D.I. and Constitution. But that's where it ends.

    Yes... Jefferson used Locke's quote, but it was a revision and came out as "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" when writing the Declaration of Independence... but he was far from the prince of religion, and written in a way of getting King Georges attention regarding the abusive power he used on American colonists. So he used some "flowery language"...very poetic. But this wasn't a message from god to Jefferson to give to King George.

    Sectarian factions have tried like hell to make Jefferson's wording in the D.I. just that.


    As an atheist...I just don't understand the meaning of natural rights. As a citizen...I can only see Life, Liberty, and Property as being rights described as part of "Due Process"....that's it. No Mas...

    I guess I'm being over the top with this reply for one reason and one reason only...TO STRIP AWAY GOD-GIVEN NATURAL RIGHTS, which theist so love to believe that they have. NONSENSE!

    Respectfully....And Thanks...
    Natural rights can be understood by atheists as base equality of humanity. Kant himself argues that natural rights derive from intelligence.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  5. #135
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    Re: Would you vote for an Atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    Gods would have been in the contract that...what?!

    Try again.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]
    The contract that actually establishes the government and laid out its powers and privileges along with a select sampling of our rights. That's called the Constitution. When you can find mention of your god there, let me know.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #136
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    Re: Would you vote for an Atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    lol you said they were not fit to hold office and spewed some BS (and that is what it was pure BS) about inalienable rights coming from god.
    Now first off unless you can prove there is a god your claim of any rights coming from god are total bunk.
    if somehow you can prove god exists after everyone else in history has failed you would then have to prove these god given rights.
    since you cannot but fail on the first point I call 100% BS on you.
    prove me wrong, prove your god exists or accept your fail

    *edit* I would say that someone who thinks like you is totally unfit for any elected office
    Sorry but you've wasted my time and I don't waste my time with people who can't post intelligently and maturely.
    "Liberalism is a doctrine fostered by a delusional and illogical people and rabidly promoted by the mainstream media and ruling elite which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - unknown

  7. #137
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    Re: Would you vote for an Atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The contract that actually establishes the government and laid out its powers and privileges along with a select sampling of our rights. That's called the Constitution. When you can find mention of your god there, let me know.
    The Constitution defines our governmnet--not our country. Our country was founded by the Declaration of Independence and it does mention both God and a "sampling of our rights".
    "Liberalism is a doctrine fostered by a delusional and illogical people and rabidly promoted by the mainstream media and ruling elite which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - unknown

  8. #138
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    Re: Would you vote for an Atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Natural rights can be understood by atheists as base equality of humanity. Kant himself argues that natural rights derive from intelligence.

    Where does it exist? There is no such thing as EQUALITY of HUMANITY...there's just no evidence of that.

    Natural right from intelligence translates into? How does that apply to all human beings? Intelligences isn't at all equal among humanity. If it was the world wouldn't probably be in the mess it's in.

  9. #139
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    Re: Would you vote for an Atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by the baron View Post
    the constitution defines our governmnet--not our country. Our country was founded by the declaration of independence and it does mention both god and a "sampling of our rights".
    nonsense...

  10. #140
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    Re: Would you vote for an Atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    nonsense...
    Really!

    Is the document that founds our country and declares our independence not the Declaration of Independence?

    Does it not mention God?

    Does it not mention our "unalienable rights"?

    Does the Constitution not define our govenment and it's limitations?

    Wow.
    "Liberalism is a doctrine fostered by a delusional and illogical people and rabidly promoted by the mainstream media and ruling elite which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - unknown

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