View Poll Results: Do you support the Death Penalty

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  • I support the Death Penalty

    38 42.70%
  • I Oppose the Death Penalty due to Principle

    27 30.34%
  • I Oppose the Death Penalty due to Practicality

    17 19.10%
  • Other

    7 7.87%
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Thread: Death Penalty in Theory

  1. #231
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    Re: Death Penalty in Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    are you libertarian ?

    No, I'm a socialist.

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    Re: Death Penalty in Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr X View Post
    No, I'm a socialist.
    l see
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

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    Re: Death Penalty in Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    How is life in prison not an impunity?
    Because it is unseen.

    And where is the evidence that even if it was swift, sure and public that it would be a deterrent?
    Because that is what causes a deterrent to become effective - most especially the sureity. That, for example, is the insight behind the incredibly effective "broken windows" approach to policing.

    Also since when are institutions of state more important than human life?
    Since we first formed them to protect human lives. That's why, for example, the state has the right to pick you off the street, force you into uniform, and send you to war without your consent if it judges that it is necessary to do so. It's why we let cops carry weapons.

  4. #234
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    Re: Death Penalty in Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    You now oppose it because you get it right? That makes no sense. Can you explain?
    I misspoke. Sorry about that. What I meant to say was...

    I'm fine with it in theory. I now oppose it because we have proven beyond realistic doubt that we do not get it right often enough to justify it.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  5. #235
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    Re: Death Penalty in Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Because it is unseen.
    It's known ....

    Because that is what causes a deterrent to become effective - most especially the sureity. That, for example, is the insight behind the incredibly effective "broken windows" approach to policing.
    people who commit serious crimes do so assuming they'll get away with it ... that's why punishment isn't a deterent. The "broken windows" approach is having jobs on the streets, a show that you're not gonna get away with it, not through the terror or fear of punishment.

    Since we first formed them to protect human lives. That's why, for example, the state has the right to pick you off the street, force you into uniform, and send you to war without your consent if it judges that it is necessary to do so. It's why we let cops carry weapons.
    1. The state does not have the right to do that.
    2. Cops carry guns because their job includes arresting people that carry guns.

  6. #236
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    Re: Death Penalty in Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    It's known ....
    Sort of. There is a very real differences between theoretical and visceral knowledge.

    people who commit serious crimes do so assuming they'll get away with it ... that's why punishment isn't a deterent. The "broken windows" approach is having jobs on the streets, a show that you're not gonna get away with it, not through the terror or fear of punishment.
    Er, no. The broken windows approach has nothing to do with having jobs. It has everything to do with what you identify - sureity of the rules being enforced. When criminals observe that rules and norms are not enforced, they feel freer to break them. When the opposite condition is in effect, they are less likely to do so.

    1. The state does not have the right to do that.
    It certainly does, which is why we still all sign up for the draft.

    2. Cops carry guns because their job includes arresting people that carry guns.
    And they may have to kill them in order to protect others or themselves, or to enforce the law. Because the institution of law and order is more important than the individual lives of criminals.

  7. #237
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    Re: Death Penalty in Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Sort of. There is a very real differences between theoretical and visceral knowledge.
    Given the number of re-offenders having visceral knowledge isn't really a detterent either.

    Er, no. The broken windows approach has nothing to do with having jobs. It has everything to do with what you identify - sureity of the rules being enforced. When criminals observe that rules and norms are not enforced, they feel freer to break them. When the opposite condition is in effect, they are less likely to do so.
    Sorry I meant cops, cops on the street.

    It certainly does, which is why we still all sign up for the draft.
    Funny seeing a conservative defend the right of the State forcing the draft ... yet calling leftists Statists for supporting having more in the commons.

    And they may have to kill them in order to protect others or themselves, or to enforce the law. Because the institution of law and order is more important than the individual lives of criminals.
    A cop cannot kill to enforce the law, a cop can only kill to defend life.

    Also they are not criminals unless they go through the justice system. But I think the fundemental issue is this.

    For me institutions of law exist for the people, you seam to think it's vice versa.

  8. #238
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    Re: Death Penalty in Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    That's my point, you think justice is served through punishment, I say that isn't the point of the justice system, it's to protect, not to punish.
    Justice implies that the scales have been balanced. Iow, if you kill, then balance for your crime would be your death. Equal measures.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  9. #239
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    Re: Death Penalty in Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Justice implies that the scales have been balanced. Iow, if you kill, then balance for your crime would be your death. Equal measures.
    Justice implies that evidence has been weighed fairly and objectively ruled upon. It's not eye for an eye (which, BTW, was originally created to CURTAIL punishment for crime)
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  10. #240
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    Re: Death Penalty in Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I misspoke. Sorry about that. What I meant to say was...

    I'm fine with it in theory. I now oppose it because we have proven beyond realistic doubt that we do not get it right often enough to justify it.
    Ah, I thought it might be that, but it could have gone either way.
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