View Poll Results: Do you support the Death Penalty

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  • I support the Death Penalty

    38 42.70%
  • I Oppose the Death Penalty due to Principle

    27 30.34%
  • I Oppose the Death Penalty due to Practicality

    17 19.10%
  • Other

    7 7.87%
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Thread: Death Penalty in Theory

  1. #111
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    Re: Death Penalty in Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    There's no emotion here, nobody is suggesting killing people at random, it's only those who, through their own actions, have proven themselves to be unworthy of continued life on this planet.
    But you're making the call of "unworthy" and exercising that through the most brutal usage of government force. I'm not convinced that is proper. And even if we said it were, given the shear amount of government force; the system must be constrained, regulated, and overseen. Not streamlined into a Chinese style execution system.

    There are no benefits from the death penalty to society at large, and any "gains" a death penalty may have on the prison population itself can be accomplished through other prison reforms instead of killing people.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  2. #112
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    Re: Death Penalty in Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Sure it does. It secures justice. It guarantees consequences for one's actions. I thought you libertarians were all about personal responsibility and consequences from actions.

    Guess not.
    What justice? You're just using the word. LWOP achieves all that without having to kill anyone. Libertarians are for personal responsibility and consequence of action. I am not saying prison should be done away with. But we're also about proper and constrained use of government force. There is no greater use of government force than that against Right to Life. It's unnecessary, it's unneeded, it's ineffective in any and all metrics, it consumes innocent life. I see no rational reason for a death penalty in our modern society.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #113
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    Re: Death Penalty in Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    But you're making the call of "unworthy" and exercising that through the most brutal usage of government force. I'm not convinced that is proper. And even if we said it were, given the shear amount of government force; the system must be constrained, regulated, and overseen. Not streamlined into a Chinese style execution system.
    There's that absurd libertarian view that government is some alien entity forced upon society against it's will. Nothing could be further from the truth. If the government fails, then it is the fault of the people for allowing it. People put representatives in power, people are therefore responsible for what their representatives do. Of course, libertarians, with their pathetic impact on American political life, don't like that because their ideas are rarely, if ever implemented so they have to play the "government is the enemy" card constantly.

    There are no benefits from the death penalty to society at large, and any "gains" a death penalty may have on the prison population itself can be accomplished through other prison reforms instead of killing people.
    Sure there are. Those people who are never getting out of prison for any reason ought to get put to death so they don't cost the taxpayer money for their upkeep. Anyone who will never get out of prison, and murderers tend to be in that category, doesn't need to be reformed because they will never be free to utilize it.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  4. #114
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    Re: Death Penalty in Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    There's that absurd libertarian view that government is some alien entity forced upon society against it's will. Nothing could be further from the truth. If the government fails, then it is the fault of the people for allowing it. People put representatives in power, people are therefore responsible for what their representatives do. Of course, libertarians, with their pathetic impact on American political life, don't like that because their ideas are rarely, if ever implemented so they have to play the "government is the enemy" card constantly.

    Sure there are. Those people who are never getting out of prison for any reason ought to get put to death so they don't cost the taxpayer money for their upkeep. Anyone who will never get out of prison, and murderers tend to be in that category, doesn't need to be reformed because they will never be free to utilize it.
    People are generally not informed enough to vote...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

  5. #115
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    Re: Death Penalty in Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    People are generally not informed enough to vote...
    Then that's a problem that needs to be addressed, that doesn't change the reality any.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  6. #116
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    Re: Death Penalty in Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Then that's a problem that needs to be addressed, that doesn't change the reality any.
    Reality is what has been created over the last hundred or so years, but it doesn't mean it is what is best for the country. If one is not informed, an informed decision cannot be made. If one depends on another for their support, that's where their vote will most likely go...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

  7. #117
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    Re: Death Penalty in Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    Reality is what has been created over the last hundred or so years, but it doesn't mean it is what is best for the country. If one is not informed, an informed decision cannot be made. If one depends on another for their support, that's where their vote will most likely go...
    That's why the left has worked so hard to make people dependent on the government, so they're more likely to get votes. Certainly, there need to be massive and sweeping changes across the board to return this country to the way it was originally intended to be. Unfortunately, we've managed to put people in charge who benefit directly from keeping things the way they are.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  8. #118
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    Re: Death Penalty in Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    There's that absurd libertarian view that government is some alien entity forced upon society against it's will. Nothing could be further from the truth. If the government fails, then it is the fault of the people for allowing it. People put representatives in power, people are therefore responsible for what their representatives do. Of course, libertarians, with their pathetic impact on American political life, don't like that because their ideas are rarely, if ever implemented so they have to play the "government is the enemy" card constantly.
    If the government fails it CAN be the fault of the People, it could be the fault of the government as well. But this is neither here nor there, this is a deflectionary argument aimed at attacking the messenger...not the message. Stay on target please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Sure there are. Those people who are never getting out of prison for any reason ought to get put to death so they don't cost the taxpayer money for their upkeep. Anyone who will never get out of prison, and murderers tend to be in that category, doesn't need to be reformed because they will never be free to utilize it.
    It costs way more money to kill someone than to keep him alive. So you're really just making us spend more money.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #119
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    Re: Death Penalty in Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    If the government fails it CAN be the fault of the People, it could be the fault of the government as well. But this is neither here nor there, this is a deflectionary argument aimed at attacking the messenger...not the message. Stay on target please.



    It costs way more money to kill someone than to keep him alive. So you're really just making us spend more money.
    It only costs more due to the appellate process that has gotten way out of control...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

  10. #120
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    Re: Death Penalty in Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    It only costs more due to the appellate process that has gotten way out of control...
    Yes, checks and balances cost money. And when you're dealing with the ultimate use of government force, you need the ultimate use of check and balance.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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