View Poll Results: Welfare: Keep, Reform or End?

Voters
79. You may not vote on this poll
  • Keep it!

    19 24.05%
  • Keep it, but it needs SEVERE reform.

    38 48.10%
  • End it

    15 18.99%
  • Other

    7 8.86%
Page 9 of 19 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 186

Thread: Welfare: Keep, Reform or End?

  1. #81
    Guru
    Juanita's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    now? COLORADO
    Last Seen
    04-27-16 @ 03:50 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    3,981

    Re: Welfare: Keep, Reform or End?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Liberty View Post
    Fair enough, that was an interesting fact you brought up. Well you learn something new every day.

    Most welfare recipients are not allowed to hold jobs while they are on welfare, if they were than perhaps your argument would be valid.



    ....but they are encouraged to LOOK for a job, so her point "is" valid..

  2. #82
    double secret probation AngryOldGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Phx,Az
    Last Seen
    03-31-14 @ 10:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    2,917

    Re: Welfare: Keep, Reform or End?

    Might as well, they can not be worked to death in the Gulags of Siberia it would cost more to ship them there than it's worth.

  3. #83
    Guru
    Juanita's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    now? COLORADO
    Last Seen
    04-27-16 @ 03:50 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    3,981

    Re: Welfare: Keep, Reform or End?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I think the states could do a better job by far but the government won't let them.


    The states "do" administer the welfare programs, as well as medicaid...

  4. #84
    Guru
    GhostlyJoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    here
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    2,712

    Re: Welfare: Keep, Reform or End?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    No I'd abolish Medicare altogether, but I enjoyed your appeal to ridicule.



    Ghostly Joe's appeal to ridicule is more clever than this one.
    Thank you. Thank you. I do try.

  5. #85
    double secret probation AngryOldGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Phx,Az
    Last Seen
    03-31-14 @ 10:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    2,917

    Re: Welfare: Keep, Reform or End?

    La di Dah wait till we get towards the end of Obama regime, then take a gander at the pie chart I posted earlier.
    Imagine the new slice that will have been added there for the 'affordable care act' the only pie that's growing is the gubberment pie
    get yer slice today!

  6. #86
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    10-01-17 @ 10:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    583

    Re: Welfare: Keep, Reform or End?

    Reform It

    First of all, most people are unaware that the majority who receive some type of welfare have jobs. And these people desperately need it.
    But much can be changed, including many things that should be viewed as a compromise.

    #1 Minimum Wage - Raise it significantly which would lower the hell out of the number of people receiving welfare.
    A living wage is required. A living wage means a wage that allows an individual to live and feed them self without assistance.
    My guess would be $14.00 an hour or so but to be sure it does not sting the economy I would suggest an incremental increase starting at around $10.00
    Are you aware that the average age of a fast food worker nation wide is 29? We're not talking about kids here. We're talking about mothers and fathers.

    #2 Unemployment - Change it in such a way that it is easy to get for the first 3 months for legit cases. But after the 3rd month the person must report to the state parks for work.
    Those who are physically fit will move dirt all day. Those who are not, will have tasks assigned that are suitable to their ability.
    Sounds cruel I know, but the only ones that would show up would be the ones that TRULY can not find a job. And they'd find a job very quickly.

    #3 Food Stamps - The Food stamp allowance is so low it is almost worthless. A single person gets $150.00 per month. This includes crack heads gaming the system, but it mostly includes people who need it severely. People with mental disabilities, extremely low IQ's, physical handicaps, and etc.
    Double the food stamp allowance at the very least. The Food Stamp System is the least abused of all Federal Systems.

    #4 Public Housing - Drug test everyone that lives in Public Housing. Create a financial incentive to leave. Have 2 classifications A) People that will always need assistance for a defined reason such as mental or physical disability. B) People who simply have it hard and need help but who should be able to find their feet.
    Put a time limit on all class B individuals.
    Give all B) individuals a limited free education. Help them with daycare. Help them with transportation. Give them a chance in hell, then give them the boot.

    #5 Disability - This one is tricky. For starters, raise the amount of money they are allowed to earn without losing their disability, significantly.
    Many people are put on it for life but only needed it for a decade. There has to be a way to do re-evaluations without clogging up the court system and without being unfair.
    I just do not know what that way is.

    #6 All Welfare Programs - Emphasis should be taken away from payouts and placed on elevating these people. Evaluate them and make the ones who are able, choose between hard physical labor or free technical school. Give them the tools they need to get off welfare rather than simply bitch about their existence and throw money at the problem.

  7. #87
    Sage
    SmokeAndMirrors's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    RVA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:00 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,174

    Re: Welfare: Keep, Reform or End?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Liberty View Post
    Federal Welfare. Should we keep it the way it is, severely reform it or end it completely?
    It definitely needs reform. No question about that.

    But at the end of the day, it is what it is: it's a system of living without working. There is no way to completely eradicate abuse.

    And I think that while we could certainly make it less vulnerable to abuse, we also need to be looking at the cultural mindset that leads people to abuse it as much as they do.

    We've had welfare for nearly a century, and it wasn't always like this. We didn't always have an entitlement culture. But it isn't just entitlement that leads people to sit on the dole: working also used to be better-paid, and less abusive towards the employee.

    What motivation does someone have to take a job if all they can get is part-time minimum wage, and they won't be able to live on that? Working used to give people a sense of self-sufficiency, because by working, they really COULD afford to live decently. Wages have been stagnant for 30 years, and that is no longer true at the lower-paying end of the spectrum, especially since most new jobs are part-time with no benefits.

    If your choices are working 35 hours a week because your employer wants to keep you under the full-time benefits threshold thus getting no health care or sick leave and STILL not being able to pay your rent, or going on welfare and getting health care and being able to pay your rent, what will you choose? It doesn't take an entitled person to decide the former is more beneficial.

    Add to that the fact that college has become increasingly unaffordable, whereas formerly it used to be heavily subsidized or even free, and it's harder for people to ever get out of the lower-paying work bracket.

    America has the least social mobility of any Western developed nation. Almost half of those born into poverty will never escape. And you have to admit that our society makes it rather hard for them to do so.

    Is there an entitlement culture? In some social milieus, yes, there is. There are absolutely segments of society that feel entitled to all the benefits with none of the work.

    But there are also a lot of people who feel genuinely empowered by making their own way, and simply can't, or wind up in a situation where they are temporarily disabled from doing so. That's even happened to me. I sustained an injury in the middle of moving cross-country, and since I obviously changed jobs and hadn't yet been there long enough to get medical, I had no insurance. I had to go on state medical assistance for a few months, and if I hadn't had a place to stay while I mended, I would have been on welfare too. And I'm very thankful it exists, and I didn't wind up in thousands of dollars of debt over something I had no control over, but why didn't I have any non-welfare access to medical care to begin with, even with a job? It's the 21st century.

    Workers no longer feel as empowered, because working is not rewarding anymore. Workers get paid less, work more hours, get fewer benefits, and have increasingly little bargaining power (say what you like about union abuse -- which does exist and should be addressed -- but unions are directly correlated with worker pay, and were highest during our most prosperous years as a country).

    We have had welfare for a long time, but we have not had this problem with abuse for a long time. Something has changed culturally. We can't simply ignore that, in our effort to get people working again.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 08-26-13 at 02:29 AM.

  8. #88
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    8,180

    Re: Welfare: Keep, Reform or End?

    Quote Originally Posted by Painter View Post
    First of all, most people are unaware that the majority who receive some type of welfare have jobs. And these people desperately need it.
    Even relatively high-earners feel they desperately need about 20% more than they have. Desperation is relative. Usually there are alternate options, i.e., "I desperately need X, or else I will decide to do Y."

    #1 Minimum Wage - Raise it significantly which would lower the hell out of the number of people receiving welfare.
    Only 1.35% of American workers are over 25 years old and receiving minimum wage. Raising it marginally doesn't do anything, and raising it "significantly" eliminates jobs (so it helps a few and hurts a lot). This is a overall a very bad idea, sorry to say.

    Are you aware that the average age of a fast food worker nation wide is 29?
    No. Cite it. Does this statistic include salaried corporate staff?

    Even if this statistic is straightforwardly true, that the average burger flipper/cashier at a fast food retailer is 29, it would tell me something even more alarming, which is that middle-aged people are hoarding the jobs that should be left for teenagers to use to build experience. What position will THEY be in in a few years, having had no opportunity to build some low wage work experience?

    We're not talking about kids here. We're talking about mothers and fathers.
    Half of the minimum wage work force is under the age of 25. Most minimum wage workers qualify as "never married." Consult the Bureau of Labor Statistics if you don't believe me.

  9. #89
    double secret probation AngryOldGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Phx,Az
    Last Seen
    03-31-14 @ 10:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    2,917

    Re: Welfare: Keep, Reform or End?

    So none of you seem to think there's an issue with the fact that ALL of your solutions are to be Enforced by the government?
    "insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"

  10. #90
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    8,180

    Re: Welfare: Keep, Reform or End?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    It definitely needs reform. No question about that. But at the end of the day, it is what it is: it's a system of living without working. There is no way to completely eradicate abuse.

    And I think that while we could certainly make it less vulnerable to abuse, we also need to be looking at the cultural mindset that leads people to abuse it as much as they do.
    I don't think the poor are abusing welfare. I think the very nature of welfare is abusive. People simply do what is in their best interests, which for the poor means doing whatever affords them the most for the least effort day-by-day. That is not inherently abuse of the system. It's the system's fault for enabling that behavior, not the people's fault for responding rationally.

    There's no "honor system" with welfare. The very essence of the federal government meeting otherwise-autonomous adults' needs is a passively abusive system.

    See signature line below:
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 08-26-13 at 03:00 AM.

Page 9 of 19 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •