View Poll Results: Welfare: Keep, Reform or End?

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  • Keep it!

    19 24.05%
  • Keep it, but it needs SEVERE reform.

    38 48.10%
  • End it

    15 18.99%
  • Other

    7 8.86%
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Thread: Welfare: Keep, Reform or End?

  1. #101
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    Re: Welfare: Keep, Reform or End?

    We don't need welfare reform. What we need is a more informed public.

    Republicans reformed welfare in 1996 and it was signed into law by Bill Clinton.....

    Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    "...The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 (PRWORA) is a United States federal law considered to be a fundamental shift in both the method and goal of federal cash assistance to the poor. The bill added a workforce development component to welfare legislation, encouraging employment among the poor. The bill was a cornerstone of the Republican Contract with America and was introduced by Rep. E. Clay Shaw, Jr. (R-FL-22) who believed welfare was partly responsible for bringing immigrants to the United States.[1] Bill Clinton signed PRWORA into law on August 22, 1996, fulfilling his 1992 campaign promise to "end welfare as we have come to know it".[2]

    PRWORA instituted Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF), which became effective July 1, 1997. TANF replaced Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) program, which had been in effect since 1935 and supplanted the Job Opportunities and Basic Skills Training program (JOBS) of 1988. The law was heralded as a "reassertion of America's work ethic" by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, largely in response to the bill's workfare component. TANF was reauthorized in the Deficit Reduction Act of 2005....<snip>....

    PRWORA proposed TANF as AFDCs replacement. The Congressional findings in PRWORA highlighted dependency, out-of-wedlock birth, and intergenerational poverty as the main contributors to a faulty system.[24] In instituting a block grant program, PRWORA granted states the ability to design their own systems, as long as states met a set of basic federal requirements. The bill's primary requirements and effects included the following:

    Ending welfare as an entitlement program;

    Requiring recipients to begin working after two years of receiving benefits;

    Placing a lifetime limit of five years on benefits paid by federal funds;

    Aiming to encourage two-parent families and discouraging out-of-wedlock births;

    Enhancing enforcement of child support; and

    Requires state professional and occupational licenses be withheld from illegal immigrants.[25]

    In granting states wider latitude for designing their own programs, some states have decided to place additional requirements on recipients. Although the law placed a time limit for benefits supported by federal funds of no more than two consecutive years and no more than a collective total of five years over a lifetime, some states have enacted briefer limits. All states, however, allowed exceptions to avoid punishing children because their parents have gone over their respective time limits[citation needed]. Federal requirements have ensured some measure of uniformity across states, but the block grant approach has led individual states to distribute federal money in different ways. Certain states more actively encourage education; others use the money to help fund private enterprises helping job seekers.

    The legislation also greatly limited funds available for unmarried parents under 18 and restricted any funding to immigrants (legal or illegal).[4] Some state programs emphasized a shift towards work with names such as "Wisconsin Works" and "WorkFirst." Between 1997 and 2000, enormous numbers of the poor have left or been terminated from the program, with a national drop of 53% in total recipients.[26]

    According to the House Ways and Means Committee, "The major goal of Public Law 104193 is to reduce the length of welfare spells by attacking dependency while simultaneously preserving the function of welfare as a safety net for families experiencing temporary financial problems." A major prong in this effort was to improve child support collection rates in an effort to move single parent families off of the welfare rolls, and keep them off. According to the Conference Report. "It is the sense of the Senate that (a) States should diligently continue their efforts to enforce child support payments by the non-custodial parent to the custodial parent, regardless of the employment status or location of the non-custodial parent".......read...

  2. #102
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    Re: Welfare: Keep, Reform or End?

    Quote Originally Posted by AngryOldGuy View Post
    so I'm going to jump to the conclusion that you will never succeed financially, and it is the 'country' that is to blame for this?
    If your seeds aren't growing, its not your fault for being a ****ty farmer and failing to maintain soil conditions. Its the fault of the seeds for being lazier and less morally upstanding than previous generations.

  3. #103
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    Re: Welfare: Keep, Reform or End?

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    The data are for context. Let's not just argue based on stereotypes. I never said I oppose all reform.
    Maybe you should have included some reform ideas instead of a one-sided post.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Welfare: Keep, Reform or End?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Liberty View Post
    Some issues with our current state of welfare:
    -Welfare is way too easy to get. There are too many people that are far from needing welfare.
    Source?

    -Welfare pays too much. Welfare is supposed to be just enough to keep you alive, welfare is not supposed to be comfortable! If it's comfortable than where is the initiative to go out and work?
    All the shiny new things you can't purchase with welfare?

    -Welfare lasts too long.
    Source?

    -The "Obamaphone" welfare program gets its own section.
    Oh goody. Please tell me how a program that was instituted during the Reagan era is bad because it actually allows the poor to keep in contact with prospective jobs.

  5. #105
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    Re: Welfare: Keep, Reform or End?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Even relatively high-earners feel they desperately need about 20% more than they have. Desperation is relative. Usually there are alternate options, i.e., "I desperately need X, or else I will decide to do Y."
    Oh I completely understand this concept. My wife and I together make well over 100k, yet we are going into more debt each year to survive as opposed to saving. I view this as our fault though, not society's. There are numerous things we could do to change this. But its like Liberals and Conservatives trying to agree... We never agree on what to cut or downsize, so we just don't.

    Thing is though, my life and your analogy are both completely irrelevant in regard to welfare and the 100 million working poor in this country.
    Your analogy holds water until you get to the bottom 1/3rd. There is nothing for them to cut. A person making 10 dollars an hour simply has no way to pay utilities, rent, and still buy food and handle personal needs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Only 1.35% of American workers are over 25 years old and receiving minimum wage. Raising it marginally doesn't do anything, and raising it "significantly" eliminates jobs (so it helps a few and hurts a lot). This is a overall a very bad idea, sorry to say.
    Typical Left vs Right debate. My belief is that you have been proven wrong time and time again throughout our history. And how can you say raising it marginally doesn't do anything. That is saying giving someone a raise does nothing for them, which is not an honest statement at all.

    Most people receiving government aid have jobs. Therefore, how can you possibly say that paying them more would not get them off welfare? Simple math would indicate this, as they'd no longer qualify.

    The Republican theory of layoffs in relation to minimum wage increases used to have some weight, even though I disagreed with it. However, in the current economic environment it is simply a non issue. Companies have already trimmed the fat as much as possible during the recession. And profits are at all all time high. These 2 facts combined make it only logical that layoffs would be very limited. They have more money than ever before, while workers in comparison make less than ever before.


    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    No. Cite it. Does this statistic include salaried corporate staff?

    Even if this statistic is straightforwardly true, that the average burger flipper/cashier at a fast food retailer is 29, it would tell me something even more alarming, which is that middle-aged people are hoarding the jobs that should be left for teenagers to use to build experience. What position will THEY be in in a few years, having had no opportunity to build some low wage work experience?

    Half of the minimum wage work force is under the age of 25. Most minimum wage workers qualify as "never married." Consult the Bureau of Labor Statistics if you don't believe me.
    I can not prove it or simply do not have the interest level to look it up.
    I heard it on CNN yesterday morning, and assumed it to be accurate.
    It seems about right to me though, as the people working minimum wage jobs sure seem to look a lot older lately.

  6. #106
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    Re: Welfare: Keep, Reform or End?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Keep it but reform it.


    1.Make phasing from welfare to job a lot easier.One of the problems people have is that once they even start doing even a little bit of work they are immediately cut off.

    2.Foodstamps should be similar to the wic voucher program.In the wic voucher program the vouchers tell you what you can get and when you can get it.

    3.A nutritionist should determine what each family needs and those vouchers reflect that.

    4.A state issued ID or driver's license should be required to use WIC,foodstamps or any other tax payer funded assistance.

    5.Instead of giving cash to the recipient for rent and utilities, the rent and utility payments will be wired to land lord's account and utility companies.

    6.Welfare recipients will either be issued bus passes in which they must show a state issued ID or driver's license or if they drive a car they will be issued a gas card which they must show a state issued driver's license and only will be issued enough gas to go to school,work,grocery store and or pick up kids from school.

    7.Additional welfare/foodstamps will not be granted for any additional kids the recipient has while on welfare/foodstamps.

    8.Able bodied people will either work,or to trade school in order to get welfare/foodstamps or they will be on work details to clean up trash, or mow lawns on public property until they get a job.

    9.Foodstamps will not pay for any name brand foods,luxury foods(sushi, lobster, expensive cuts of meat, or any other luxury foods) energy drinks, sugary drinks, cookies, cakes, candies, or any other junk food.

    I agree with Jamesrage here but I would like to add child care for single low income parents during working hours only. The cost of childcare has grown out of hand and can negate any income a single parent earns particularly if they have multiple children. In some cases it may cost them more to work and pay for childcare then they are able to make working a full time job.


    I know that many people have a different view on what is considered acceptable conditions for a poor family to live with. I suspect by some of the posts in this thread that my standards are far lower then what they would consider. My message to them is stop being such a wimp. A hard poor life doesn't necessarily mean a bad life. I get the impression that you feel people need to have a semi comfortable life to get by or to be happy. I know and live a poor life first hand. My father and I live on $1200 a month and we receive no assistance and I have never received any assistance. That is the equivalent of one full time $8/hour job supporting two people and we have internet and are both smokers. We could probably feed and house a 3rd if we cut out the smoking and internet and used our resources a little more wisely. Now I am fully aware that families with children, more expensive ares, or other circumstances may have other added expenses but come on how much do you really think people need when others are having to pay for it if things are changed as Jamesrage suggested? I was raised that when you are asking others for help you make do with the very bare minimum you can get by with and I mean bare minimum. If you have had a fast food meal, bought a soda, rented a movie, or had a beer this week then in my mind you have no basis to ask for assistance nor should you receive any. When you have cut out all unnecessary things first and only then do you have the right you ask for assistance from others. Don't expect to have extras no matter how small on another persons buck.

  7. #107
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    Re: Welfare: Keep, Reform or End?

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    I agree, drug screening is a must, no different than most employers require in this country to hold a job for a paycheck. Why are they any different?
    Because requiring drug screening is raaaaaacisssst!

    Or, at least, that's what I keep hearing.

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  8. #108
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    Re: Welfare: Keep, Reform or End?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Liberty View Post
    Federal Welfare. Should we keep it the way it is, severely reform it or end it completely?
    Keep it and reform it. Ultimately it serves us all to have it and it helps lower other human costs to hucking people into the street. It does need major reform, we must understand that we'll color hugely have to pay for it, but that overall it will benefit. I think certain. things with welfare should come coupled with community service. I'm OK helping you out and would rather you pay rent and remain active in the economy rather than paying for more homeless, but we should get some labor out of the deal as well.
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  9. #109
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    Re: Welfare: Keep, Reform or End?

    Quote Originally Posted by Painter View Post
    I heard it on CNN yesterday morning, and assumed it to be accurate.
    used to call them the Clinton News Network

  10. #110
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    Re: Welfare: Keep, Reform or End?

    Welfare needs massive reform. It should be hard to get, easy to lose and very limited and short-term in scope. It should help a person pick themselves up and get back on the horse, it should never be a lifetime entitlement, nor should it reward irresponsibility.

    Right now, we're doing it all wrong.
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