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Thread: War on drugs.

  1. #31
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    Re: War on drugs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    When I want to know about the latest advances in the war on toenail fungus, I'll see if Dr. Gupta has something to say, that is, after I've exhausted legitimate sources.

    I've been an EMT for decades now, and I'm quite confident that I know whereof I speak.
    Are you serious?
    What in God's name do you think being an EMT has to do with marijuana?
    You were speaking in the context of being valuable employees. And there is no connection between being a heavy pot smoker and being an EMT.
    I suppose that next your going to tell me that you have treated a person for smoking too much marijuana? B S

  2. #32
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    Re: War on drugs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    I ask you to reconsider, but this time, consider the effect not so much on the user, but the larger community he operates in.
    It's kind of funny that you're the conservative and I'm the liberal, but you're the one talking about social engineering for the greater good of society and I'm the one talking about individual liberty.

    Anyway, speaking of cost, there's always this:


    CDC: Alcohol Abuse Costs U.S. $224 Billion a Year

    People who drink too much cost the U.S. economy $223.5 billion a year, and governments pay more than 60 percent of their health care costs, federal health experts reported on Monday.
    Alcohol abuse kills 79,000 people a year, the report from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found.

    [ . . . ]

    They found most of the costsó72 percentócame from lost workplace productivity. Another 11 percent came from direct health costs, 9 percent could be attributed to law enforcement expenses, and 6 percent to costs from motor vehicle accidents.
    CDC: Alcohol Abuse Costs U.S. $224 Billion a Year - NationalJournal.com

    I'm not saying that lazy people on the job don't cost -- whether they're high or not -- I'm saying that you are grossly underestimating the destructive nature of alcohol addiction. It's an extremely destructive drug once it gets past recreational use.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

  3. #33
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    Re: War on drugs.

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Actually Oftencold in more spot on then you are on this issue. He/she has made a valid attempt to show the adverse affects of marijuana and other drugs on society as a whole.

    In another thread on drugs I posted the following information



    The kitty is out of the bag. People are learning the truth about the whole medical marijuana "scam" is just that a scam. So while those who have been working tirelessly to shove legalization of 'medical marijuana' through a few states. It ain't going to be so easy the rest of the way because once people find out they have been used and lied to , it ain't going to fly.

    Oh and another thing, those who have passed laws for medical marijuana are finding an increase in the number of teenagers using the drug due to the dispersment stations close to schools. In their studies they also have found those kids who use it regularly are piss poor students. In just another couple of years, I'm sure we will start to see the adverse affects when the dropout rates rise in states like Colorado and Washington. Cheers!
    To be completely honest with you, I really could not care less about medical marijuana.
    I do agree with you on 1 thing. It is bad for youth to smoke marijuana before their brains are developed. This has been proven by real science, not quackery.

    I am for marijuana because quite frankly, there is nothing to it. There is no more reason for an adult to not smoke marijuana than cigarettes.
    And there is no reason to refrain from hiring someone that smokes marijuana.

  4. #34
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    Re: War on drugs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    It's kind of funny that you're the conservative and I'm the liberal, but you're the one talking about social engineering for the greater good of society and I'm the one talking about individual liberty.

    Anyway, speaking of cost, there's always this:



    CDC: Alcohol Abuse Costs U.S. $224 Billion a Year - NationalJournal.com

    I'm not saying that lazy people on the job don't cost -- whether they're high or not -- I'm saying that you are grossly underestimating the destructive nature of alcohol addiction. It's an extremely destructive drug once it gets past recreational use.
    If we were allowed to permit drug abusers to simply die, I'd be all for legalization. but since we're foolish enough to grant them care, food, and shelter, I must advocate for reasonable accommodation.
    Quod scripsi, scripsi

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    Re: War on drugs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    If we were allowed to permit drug abusers to simply die, I'd be all for legalization. but since we're foolish enough to grant them care, food, and shelter, I must advocate for reasonable accommodation.
    How many people die from marijuana smoking in a year? We know it's 79,000 for alcohol.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

  6. #36
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    Re: War on drugs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Painter View Post
    Are you serious?
    What in God's name do you think being an EMT has to do with marijuana?
    Are you serious? Being an EMT is very often about cleaing up the messes people make wile drunk or stoned. Try it sometime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Painter View Post
    I suppose that next your going to tell me that you have treated a person for smoking too much marijuana? B S
    No. We typically treat them for the things they let go from minor issues to major ones while they were chemically detached. And then we all pay for their care. Drunks are typically expected to pay their bills in my experience, while stoners often aren't.
    Quod scripsi, scripsi

  7. #37
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    Re: War on drugs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Painter View Post
    To be completely honest with you, I really could not care less about medical marijuana.
    I do agree with you on 1 thing. It is bad for youth to smoke marijuana before their brains are developed. This has been proven by real science, not quackery.

    I am for marijuana because quite frankly, there is nothing to it. There is no more reason for an adult to not smoke marijuana than cigarettes.
    And there is no reason to refrain from hiring someone that smokes marijuana.
    Cigarettes are not a mind altering drug but having said that......
    Then I can assume you have no problem with the federal government if ever it should be legalized to tax and tax and tax again the substance just like it does cigarettes and alcohol making it very expensive to purchase. Do I have that right? And that you do realize the whole legalization of the drug is not going to stop any black market of the drug because once the federal government and let us not forget state governments taxation on top will eventually make it more advantageous for those who seek the weed to look to black market sources because they would always offer it for a much lower rate than the pushers in the federal government. Correct? So stopping illegal drugs into this country will not stop because there will still be a market for them. Correct? And I assume the same leftist groups that have gone after cigarette smoking for its adverse affects on health and the health of others, that you are willing to see that the same laws be applied to marijuana smokers in public places as those being applied to cigarette smokers? Yes? Because data proves that marijuana smokers share the same pulmonary problems as cigarette smokers. Correct? Which means under Obamacare the doobie smoker is going to face the same discrimination as the smoker. Correct? And the second hand smoke is just as lethal as that from a doobie. Correct? Which means regarding to your geographic location it would be against the law to smoke a doobie in the car with children. Correct? In some towns where they have outlawed smoking in apartment buildings, you realize that smoking a doobie would fall under the same rules... correct? And those who ban smoking 20 feet from any building would include someone smoking a doobie or pipe. Correct? And those who have children who smoke cigarettes around their children in their own homes being accused of child abuse, you do realize smoking doobies/pipes applies equally. Correct?

  8. #38
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    Re: War on drugs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    Are you serious? Being an EMT is very often about cleaing up the messes people make wile drunk or stoned. Try it sometime.
    Ok there are several problems with this statement.
    1- Almost all of these "messes" are a result of alcohol.
    2- Nobody is saying to you that it should be fine for casual marijuana smokers to operate a vehicle.
    3- The impairment level for any type of marijuana or any type of marijuana smoker is trivial in comparison to only a small amount of alcohol.

    The problem is that someone comes in and you blood test them and find marijuana, and you reach to make a connection between the reason for their admittance and the marijuana in their system.
    To make the problem worse, it stays in their system for weeks after usage but only impairs the casual user for a couple of hours. The result of this is that an accurate judgement is scientifically impossible. Yet you and those that you listen to try to anyhow.

    The fact of the matter is, if you tested every person for broccoli consumption over their last 3 weeks, your test group would score about the same.
    Yet broccoli would also not be the reason for their admittance.
    Just because a person gets hurt or even wrecks a car and has pot in their system, it does not mean the 2 events are connected.
    Unlike alcohol where people become completely impaired.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    No. We typically treat them for the things they let go from minor issues to major ones while they were chemically detached. And then we all pay for their care. Drunks are typically expected to pay their bills in my experience, while stoners often aren't.
    This is totally false.
    The marijuana addiction rate is no where close to coffee and not even a fraction as severe as cigarettes.
    It can be slightly addictive though, and about 9% of users experience this problem.
    But if anyone needs an actual rehab to stop, the problem is not the marijuana. The problem is that they need to get away from the people that surround them.
    There are not significant "issues" from the withdrawal process. Even the Anti-Marijuana papers that are mostly BS will admit to this.
    Irritability, constipation, and anxiety for a week or so.

  9. #39
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    Re: War on drugs.

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Cigarettes are not a mind altering drug but having said that......
    Then I can assume you have no problem with the federal government if ever it should be legalized to tax and tax and tax again the substance just like it does cigarettes and alcohol making it very expensive to purchase. Do I have that right? And that you do realize the whole legalization of the drug is not going to stop any black market of the drug because once the federal government and let us not forget state governments taxation on top will eventually make it more advantageous for those who seek the weed to look to black market sources because they would always offer it for a much lower rate than the pushers in the federal government. Correct? So stopping illegal drugs into this country will not stop because there will still be a market for them. Correct? And I assume the same leftist groups that have gone after cigarette smoking for its adverse affects on health and the health of others, that you are willing to see that the same laws be applied to marijuana smokers in public places as those being applied to cigarette smokers? Yes? Because data proves that marijuana smokers share the same pulmonary problems as cigarette smokers. Correct? Which means under Obamacare the doobie smoker is going to face the same discrimination as the smoker. Correct? And the second hand smoke is just as lethal as that from a doobie. Correct? Which means regarding to your geographic location it would be against the law to smoke a doobie in the car with children. Correct? In some towns where they have outlawed smoking in apartment buildings, you realize that smoking a doobie would fall under the same rules... correct? And those who ban smoking 20 feet from any building would include someone smoking a doobie or pipe. Correct? And those who have children who smoke cigarettes around their children in their own homes being accused of child abuse, you do realize smoking doobies/pipes applies equally. Correct?
    While your paragraph might be grammatically correct and mine might even be incorrect... I swear to you, if you'd hit return every now and then, it would be so much easier to read.

    Anyhow, the term mind altering is very deceptive. On a technical level, you are mistaken. Cigarettes are a mind altering drug. Nicotine causes a multitude of chemical reactions in the brain. Several of which help relax a person, just as marijuana does.
    On a practical level, neither drug truly "alters" your mind.

    With that being said, from what I see, I would have to respond "correct" to most of your post.
    Let them tax the hell out of it. It would still be so cheap in comparison that it would put the drug dealers out of business.

    The irony in all of this is that there only only 3 types that want marijuana to stay illegal.

    -Drug Dealers
    -People who make money off its illegality
    -And people who lack knowledge or understanding

  10. #40
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    Re: War on drugs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    And then we all pay for their care. Drunks are typically expected to pay their bills in my experience, while stoners often aren't.
    OK this is also ridiculous on so many levels.
    In what way are you qualified to make such a statement?
    I thought you were an EMT?

    First of all, an EMT does not have access to a patient's financial records.
    Second, it would require a really involved study with a large study group of many patient's financial records to even begin to have that type of knowledge.
    Third, if you do have this type of information as an EMT, your hospital needs to be taken to court.
    Fourth, it just does not make any logical sense.

    And what does any of this have to do with your original statement that heavy pot smokers are lazy or don't come to work or whatever it was you said?

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