View Poll Results: Secrecy ... the article and do you ...?

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Thread: Secrecy ... vote and tell me what you think.

  1. #1
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    Secrecy ... vote and tell me what you think.

    What Snowden and Manning Don't Understand About Secrecy - Mark Bowden - The Atlantic

    There are many legitimate reasons for governments to keep secrets, among them the need to preserve the element of surprise in military operations or criminal investigations, to permit leaders and diplomats to bargain candidly, and to protect the identities of those we ask to perform dangerous and difficult missions
    Last edited by Turin; 08-23-13 at 12:10 PM.

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    Re: Secrecy ... vote and tell me what you think.

    To some extent, I agree. There is a need for secrets.

    But when it's blatant violations of the Constitution, of human rights and of very basic Western values the government is hiding, like in case of Manning and Snowden, there is absolutely no, nada, justification for secrecy, and this government secrecy is nothing but cover-up of huge crimes against the people or even against humanity. The government is not above the law, and it's every citizen's first duty to hold the government responsible for its transgressions.

    Manning and Snowden are heroes, not traitors.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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    Re: Secrecy ... vote and tell me what you think.

    I used to live and work in DC. A friend of mine's father was a high ranking mucketymuck in the criminal investigative division of the FBI. In various discussion with him on various things (like me just being a light-hearted conversationalist about X-Files, UFO's, and the like) we would sometimes come back to the subject of how investigations usually worked. He strongly opposed digitization and sharing of information for reasons that things like this could happen. He felt it would be a disaster if someone were ever able to get access to a computer and download the files for their open cases, be that China, or organized crime, or even just some random idiot. He was a strong believer that old fashioned fill the cardboard box case work, while not efficient, was the best way for cases to be handled.

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    Re: Secrecy ... vote and tell me what you think.

    I agree that some things need to be secrets. The difference between Manning and Snowden is that Manning disclosed diplomatic secrets. Equating that with someone who disclosed what the government has been doing to us all these years doesn't compute.


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    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Secrecy ... vote and tell me what you think.

    I marked agree but it does also bother me they broke their oaths. Manning bothers me even more because he was a service member. Manning is slightly more of a POS than Snowden. But just a little.
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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    Re: Secrecy ... vote and tell me what you think.

    I can see the need for some information to be kept secret temporarily such as active criminal investigations or military operations. However this information should be made available after the fact. I generally feel that most secrets are kept for less legitimate reasons. They are simply afraid of other peoples reaction toward their actions and in many cases probably rightfully so.

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    Re: Secrecy ... vote and tell me what you think.

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    To some extent, I agree. There is a need for secrets.

    But when it's blatant violations of the Constitution, of human rights and of very basic Western values the government is hiding, like in case of Manning and Snowden, there is absolutely no, nada, justification for secrecy, and this government secrecy is nothing but cover-up of huge crimes against the people or even against humanity. The government is not above the law, and it's every citizen's first duty to hold the government responsible for its transgressions.

    Manning and Snowden are heroes, not traitors.
    You did not understand the article; how good is your English?

    It criticized the indiscriminate nature of the leaks.

    You agree there is a need for secrets, some secrets? Well, what Manning-Snowden did was
    reveal all secrets without any attempt to determine whether some of them might be legitimate.

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    Re: Secrecy ... vote and tell me what you think.

    Would we consider the guy who gave away secrets of the manhatten project a hero if he had leaked the information to the press?

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    Re: Secrecy ... vote and tell me what you think.

    Quote Originally Posted by USViking View Post
    You did not understand the article; how good is your English?

    It criticized the indiscriminate nature of the leaks.

    You agree there is a need for secrets, some secrets? Well, what Manning-Snowden did was
    reveal all secrets without any attempt to determine whether some of them might be legitimate.
    Well, considering your "the government is always right" attitude, I assume your German is very good at least.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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    Re: Secrecy ... vote and tell me what you think.

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    To some extent, I agree. There is a need for secrets.

    But when it's blatant violations of the Constitution, of human rights and of very basic Western values the government is hiding, like in case of Manning and Snowden, there is absolutely no, nada, justification for secrecy, and this government secrecy is nothing but cover-up of huge crimes against the people or even against humanity. The government is not above the law, and it's every citizen's first duty to hold the government responsible for its transgressions.

    Manning and Snowden are heroes, not traitors.
    I believe government is a necessary evil, as such I believe that the only thing the government should be allowed to keep a few secrets.Like troop movements during a time of war or maybe a raid on a wanted criminal's house. However on the same token Manning should have the book thrown at him,
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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