Has obama brought the races together[W:225]

Re: Has obama brought the races together

opendebate said:

First of all I didn't place all the blame on them and it is annoying as hell that I have to add disclaimers for every possible thing you guys might read into my posts so that you don't accuse me of saying something I didn't say.

Here is the difference. I recognize that I am emotionally invested, everyone here is. But there are people who can rein that in and discuss things objectively and people who can't . I have encountered a few who can do it but very few. What I have seen is many conservatives who are not capable. Many is not every.

I think you are the one who is standing in the way of a civilized discussion because you read in,make assumptions followed by accusations and dismiss someone without even trying. Thank you for proving my point.

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You're just another on the fringes of the extreme that sees the sins of the other side without having the self awareness to realize they are also what they criticize. Sorry, I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

Re: Has obama brought the races together

radcen said:

You're just another on the fringes of the extreme that sees the sins of the other side without having the self awareness to realize they are also what they criticize. Sorry, I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

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Well since I know that is not me. Sincerely, it is not me, you give me reason to see you as the problem. I however, am willing to try to conversation and see something different in you....are you?

Re: Has obama brought the races together

Paschendale said:

I offer this as an example of the conservative solution to racial problems. If it benefits white people, just pretend the problem doesn't exist. It's all fine until the black president "inserts" himself into the issue. There's no race problem until then. Of course not.

As I said, the president has served to illuminate existing problems, no matter how badly conservatives want to keep them buried.

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Other POTUSs haven't injected themselves into these sort of issues. Feel free to give me an example if you can think of one.

Other POTUSs haven't publicly acknowledged having a 'chip on their shoulder' because to their mixed race status or admitted to hiding his 'Whiteness' from other while growing up.

Maybe I'm just mistaken and it happens in every presidency.

Re: Has obama brought the races together

Yes...race has never been a problem. It like everything else is Obama's fault...

Re: Has obama brought the races together

I don´t think he had an impact, except for bringing the racists out of the woodwork.

Re: Has obama brought the races together

WCH said:

Other POTUSs haven't injected themselves into these sort of issues. Feel free to give me an example if you can think of one.

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Off the top of my head....Bush was "sickened" by the beating of Rodney King. After the officers were found innocent the Department of Justice indicted the officers for violations of civil rights.

I know though...that was sooooo long ago and don't let reality get between your rightwing narrative.

Re: Has obama brought the races together

WCH said:

Other POTUSs haven't publicly acknowledged having a 'chip on their shoulder' because to their mixed race status or admitted to hiding his 'Whiteness' from other while growing up.

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He said those things in the context of describing old attitudes that he learned to overcome.

Re: Has obama brought the races together

Hard Truth said:

He said those things in the context of describing old attitudes that he learned to overcome.

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His actions and demeanor speak otherwise.

Re: Has obama brought the races together

TiredOfLife said:

In a country where people still hate and fear blacks, especially black men, how exactly was he supposed to bring us together? Even before he was elected the overt racists here were screaming for his head. What he eventually has to do, in high profile race cases, is make some sort of statement. That's not inserting himself, and I'm quite sure that's the last thing he wants to have to do.

We are still a racist country. Obama can't fix that and frankly, that's not his job either.

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You mean the same Obama that specifically used racism as a means to get elected in the first place? His first campaign was based around the novelty of a black man getting into the White House, it encouraged minorities to get you and vote for Obama because he was black, not because he was the best man for the job.

Yup, there's racism, but a lot of it comes from minorities.

Re: Has obama brought the races together

WCH said:

His actions and demeanor speak otherwise.

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You recognize that when you talk about your read on a persons "demeanor" you widen the margin for error don't you? What actions are you referring to?

Re: Has obama brought the races together

iliveonramen said:

Off the top of my head....Bush was "sickened" by the beating of Rodney King. After the officers were found innocent the Department of Justice indicted the officers for violations of civil rights.

I know though...that was sooooo long ago and don't let reality get between your rightwing narrative.

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President George H. W. Bush spoke out against the rioting, stating that "anarchy" would not be tolerated.

Later, U.S. President George H.W. Bush addressed the country, denouncing "random terror and lawlessness", summarizing his discussions with Mayor Bradley and Governor Wilson, and outlining the federal assistance he was making available to local authorities. Citing the "urgent need to restore order", he warned that the "brutality of a mob" would not be tolerated, and he would "use whatever force is necessary". He then turned to the Rodney King case and a more moderate tone, describing talking to his own grandchildren and pointing to the reaction of "good and decent policemen" as well as civil rights leaders. He said he had already directed the Justice Department to begin its own investigation, saying that "grand jury action is underway today" and that justice would prevail.

He was being presidential, not haphazardly commenting out of emotion.

Clinton on the other hand argued that the violence resulted from the breakdown of economic opportunities and social institutions in the inner city. He also berated both major political parties for failing to address urban issues, especially the Republican Administration for its presiding over "more than a decade of urban decay" generated by their spending cuts.[74] He maintained that the King verdicts could not be avenged by the "savage behavior" of "lawless vandals". He also stated that people "are looting because ... [t]hey do not share our values, and their children are growing up in a culture alien from ours, without family, without neighborhood, without church, without support."

Maybe it's not the POTUS but, the party that's the problem?

Re: Has obama brought the races together

opendebate said:

You recognize that when you talk about your read on a persons "demeanor" you widen the margin for error don't you? What actions are you referring to?

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I didn't realize I was being psychoanalyzed but, I've seen enough of this fool to do my own.

Originally Posted by WCH
"So injecting himself into issues that he and his followers gave racial overtones (Martin/Zimmerman, the 'professor', along with most issues his hit man Holder has been involved in, voting laws, gun running, not going after obvious voter intimidation, etc) has no effect?
Let's be honest here."

Re: Has obama brought the races together

iliveonramen said:

Yes...race has never been a problem. It like everything else is Obama's fault...

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Except when it's Bush II's fault.

Re: Has obama brought the races together

Why should our President be responsible for our personal decisions and choices we make? Are we so moronic that we can't decide for ourselves?
If one is racist, own it for yourself and either work towards a positive change or shut up.

Re: Has obama brought the races together

WCH said:

Other POTUSs haven't injected themselves into these sort of issues. Feel free to give me an example if you can think of one.

Other POTUSs haven't publicly acknowledged having a 'chip on their shoulder' because to their mixed race status or admitted to hiding his 'Whiteness' from other while growing up.

Maybe I'm just mistaken and it happens in every presidency.

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Well, the last president did what his Republican constituents do. He ignored racial issues and pretended they didn't exist. What you're calling "injecting" is simply acknowledging the existence of problems. I get why that's hard for a conservative to do, though. I'm sure you'd prefer to just go back to pretending that there are no problems, since most of them benefit you at the expensive of blacks and latinos.

Re: Has obama brought the races together

WCH said:

President George H. W. Bush spoke out against the rioting, stating that "anarchy" would not be tolerated.

Later, U.S. President George H.W. Bush addressed the country, denouncing "random terror and lawlessness", summarizing his discussions with Mayor Bradley and Governor Wilson, and outlining the federal assistance he was making available to local authorities. Citing the "urgent need to restore order", he warned that the "brutality of a mob" would not be tolerated, and he would "use whatever force is necessary". He then turned to the Rodney King case and a more moderate tone, describing talking to his own grandchildren and pointing to the reaction of "good and decent policemen" as well as civil rights leaders. He said he had already directed the Justice Department to begin its own investigation, saying that "grand jury action is underway today" and that justice would prevail.

He was being presidential, not haphazardly commenting out of emotion.

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What the hell are you talking about??? Not sure how Bush's response to the riots is relevant. Are you saying Obama supports riots? That he called for riots? We're talking about Presidents making remarks on racially divisive issues.

When Bush saw the video....

Mr Bush said yesterday that the incident had shocked him. 'What I saw made me sick,' he told reporters. 'It's sickening to see the beating that was rendered. There's no way in my view to explain it away. It was outrageous.'

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After the officers were acquitted...

"Viewed from outside the trial, it was hard to understand how the verdict could possibly square with the video. Those civil rights leaders with whom I met were stunned. And so was I and so was Barbara and so were my kids.

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Not sure what you're saying about the Clinton reaction over the riots as well....once again...your criticism was that apparently Presidents never made remarks about racial issues in America which is not true.

I'm not going to argue over Clinton's remark with you. You can take pot shots and console your ego.

Presidents have always talked about race and maybe that's uncomfortable for you to realize. That the rightwing has only cared when it comes from a black mans mouth.

Re: Has obama brought the races together

opendebate said:

I would like your thoughts on this. I believe I see the GOP use fear often to control and manipulate their members. This seems a little like to me like just another opportunity to do such a thing. Do you see any truth to either of those statements?

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For the most part, when I think of the GOP I don't think of it as what I think they do with respect to others but rather how they relate to and appear to me. I have never felt frightened or controlled by the GOP. I have felt disappointed.

Within the GOP you have different groups and tiers from the grassroots to evangelicals to tea partiers to fiscal conservatives to the leadership. I have also felt some in the GOP either aren't very smart or they think I'm not very smart; I'm honestly not sure. And I've felt pandered to a whole lot especaially around election time but it doesn't work so I can't say I've felt manipulated. I'm just very puzzled that otherwise integellent people (I thought) honestly think ill fall hook line and sinker for anything they say as if they believe they're my only source for information and knowing how used car salesman they're being that I'd actually trust them as a reliable source. I don't k w if they think I'm dumb, easily influenced, don't think for myself or what. Pandering, which is to say I know good and well what the GOP stands for on a certain issue either officially or in its culture but trying to feed me a load of bull on it to try to get me to think differently, only causes me to distrust to panderers and hold the entire party to greater scrutiny.

But fear, control and manipulation; not with me. Maybe with others, I haven't considered it. Now that you bring it up, maybe. In 2008 they would have had us think Barack Obama was practically a secret Al Qaeda operative, hates America but loves the terrorists who should be judged on his patriotism by his middle name and seen holding the same positions as the most disturbing people they can prove that he's met by virtue of the fact that they know each other.

Re: Has obama brought the races together

Paschendale said:

Well, the last president did what his Republican constituents do. He ignored racial issues and pretended they didn't exist. What you're calling "injecting" is simply acknowledging the existence of problems. I get why that's hard for a conservative to do, though. I'm sure you'd prefer to just go back to pretending that there are no problems, since most of them benefit you at the expensive of blacks and latinos.

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Attacking Conservative will do nothing to make your case. What Obama has done is not presidential and has created a larger racial divide in this country.

I personally see it in the eyes and hear it in the words of Black Americans everywhere I go. Things have definitely changed for the worse.

Re: Has obama brought the races together

WCH said:

I didn't realize I was being psychoanalyzed but, I've seen enough of this fool to do my own.

Originally Posted by WCH
"So injecting himself into issues that he and his followers gave racial overtones (Martin/Zimmerman, the 'professor', along with most issues his hit man Holder has been involved in, voting laws, gun running, not going after obvious voter intimidation, etc) has no effect?
Let's be honest here."

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I think he had an obligation to speak up and make an effort to evolve a little understanding in those who could not see the racial overtones that many many people easily saw. Stating that he "injected" himself and that he and his "followers" created those racial overtones denies the legitimacy of those who recognized the racial dimensions complaints. You deny their experience and turn them into nothing more than media puppets. Are they only worth listening too if they support what YOU think? I think he was reaching out in an effort to keep peace and aid us in moving forward.

Re: Has obama brought the races together

radcen said:

Except when it's Bush II's fault.

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Okay....

Re: Has obama brought the races together

iliveonramen said:

What the hell are you talking about??? Not sure how Bush's response to the riots is relevant. Are you saying Obama supports riots? That he called for riots? We're talking about Presidents making remarks on racially divisive issues.

When Bush saw the video....

After the officers were acquitted...




Not sure what you're saying about the Clinton reaction over the riots as well....once again...your criticism was that apparently Presidents never made remarks about racial issues in America which is not true.

I'm not going to argue over Clinton's remark with you. You can take pot shots and console your ego.

Presidents have always talked about race and maybe that's uncomfortable for you to realize. That the rightwing has only cared when it comes from a black mans mouth.

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Those words from Bush you wrote had nothing to do with race...nothing. He never mentioned the race or color of those involved AT ALL!

Racism is born, bred, manifested and metastasized in the mind of a Leftist and has been a tenet of Communism for more than 100 years.

The former FBI Director, J. Edgar Hoover, said of the Communist goals:

"Communists seek to advance the cause of communism by injecting themselves into racial situations and in exploiting them, (1) to intensify the frictions between Negroes and Whites to 'prove' that discrimination against the minorities is an inherent defect of the capitalistic system, (2) to foster domestic disunity by dividing Negroes and Whites into antagonistic, warring factions, (3) to undermine and destroy established authority, (4) to incite racial strife and riotous activity, and (6) to portray the Communist movement as the 'champion' of social protest and the only force capable of ameliorating the conditions of the Negro and the oppressed."

You and that DHS employee can now go into complete denial. 8)

Re: Has obama brought the races together

Smeagol said:

And I've felt pandered to a whole lot especaially around election time but it doesn't work so I can't say I've felt manipulated. I'm just very puzzled that otherwise integellent people (I thought) honestly think ill fall hook line and sinker for anything they say as if they believe they're my only source for information and knowing how used car salesman they're being that I'd actually trust them as a reliable source. I don't k w if they think I'm dumb, easily influenced, don't think for myself or what.

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On this point, I think many people either do not have the time, inclination or intelligence to sift through all the BS that is thrown at them especially during an election because of this they tend to be more emotionally led it seems. Fear being an easy emotion to target, I believe it is used often. (Think GW and 911 for instance and how it was used. Anyway...I digress. ) If you think for yourself and do not get swept away in the emotion you are a minority and it makes sense that you would find tactics used to appeal to the lowest common denominator offensive. I don't think they believe YOU are stupid or easily led, but I do believe they think that of the majority of voters and it is sadly true. Just my opinion.

Re: Has obama brought the races together

opendebate said:

I think he had an obligation to speak up and make an effort to evolve a little understanding in those who could not see the racial overtones that many many people easily saw. Stating that he "injected" himself and that he and his "followers" created those racial overtones denies the legitimacy of those who recognized the racial dimensions complaints. You deny their experience and turn them into nothing more than media puppets. Are they only worth listening too if they support what YOU think? I think he was reaching out in an effort to keep peace and aid us in moving forward.

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This is where we disagree. Sorry. The Left MUST turn everything to something racial to please their base.

Re: Has obama brought the races together

First Rule of Race Relations in America: It's always the black guy's fault. Thus, Obama has made things worse. :2razz:

Re: Has obama brought the races together

WCH said:

This is where we disagree. Sorry. The Left MUST turn everything to something racial to please their base.

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Okay, we can disagree. But answer this please. What are we to do? Wait until the right agrees that something is racial before speaking up. If we did that there would still be separate bathrooms and water fountains.