View Poll Results: Most Important Allied Member of WWII

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  • United States

    40 45.45%
  • England

    14 15.91%
  • The USSR

    34 38.64%
  • China

    0 0%
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Thread: Most Important Allied Member of WWII

  1. #161
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    Re: Most Important Allied Member of WWII

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    That's Peameal Bacon for the uninitiated - one of God's gifts to weekend breakfasts.
    Interesting read... thanks. Didn't know they rolled it in peas back in the day. Sounds good.
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  2. #162
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    Re: Most Important Allied Member of WWII

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    You do raise a good point, though, which is effectively WWII didn't really end for Eastern Europe in 1945, at least not with a return to normalcy; it just blended into the tyranny of the USSR for the next 50 years.
    As predicted by Patton. He lobbied on several occasions to push on to Moscow.

    "Let's keep our boots polished, bayonets sharpened, and present a picture of force and strength to the Red Army. This is the only language they understand and respect."
    "I understand the situation. Their (the Soviet) supply system is inadequate to maintain them in a serious action such as I could put to them. They have chickens in the coop and cattle on the hoof -- that's their supply system. They could probably maintain themselves in the type of fighting I could give them for five days. After that it would make no difference how many million men they have, and if you wanted Moscow I could give it to you. They lived on the land coming down. There is insufficient left for them to maintain themselves going back. Let's not give them time to build up their supplies. If we do, then . . . we have had a victory over the Germans and disarmed them, but we have failed in the liberation of Europe; we have lost the war!"
    Patton to U.S. Secretary of War Robert Patterson, May 7, 1945
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  3. #163
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    Re: Most Important Allied Member of WWII

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    Probably, but now we're in alternate history territory, and I'm sorry for even suggesting a world where USSR got the bomb before the US. From what I understand the Soviets only got there's by stealing American secrets, so if the US had never made one the USSR probably wouldn't have either.
    I think you are 100% correct. They DID steal the technology.

    Wasn't Russia totalitarian well before the war?
    Yes, they were. In fact, Stalin knew about the Manhattan Project before Truman did because of Russian spies. The Russians spied from the very beginning of the Project.
    Last edited by Bodhisattva; 11-11-13 at 08:39 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  4. #164
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    Re: Most Important Allied Member of WWII

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    Wasn't Russia totalitarian well before the war?.
    Yes, of course, but the victory in WWII turned the Stalinist USSR from a third-world dictatorship perpetually teetering on the brink of economic collapse into a superpower with realistic global ambitions. For Russians it meant that the Communist regime is there to stay, for their lifetime.

  5. #165
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    Re: Most Important Allied Member of WWII

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    The USSR was totalitarian as of the 1920's and certainly after Stalin took control in '24 (or whenever that was). And Poland was independent prior to WWII
    Poland was attacked by Hitler from the West and by Stalin from the East, in accordance with the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, in September of 1939.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Poland


    The USSR sure was totalitarian since its birth, but that was never a choice of Russians and other captive peoples: the Leninists never won any elections, and retained their power by systematic extermination of all and any opposition.

    When German tanks rolled into Kiev and western Russian towns, they were showered with flowers. People believed they are being liberated from the worst tyranny in history. Of course, the Nazis being the Nazis, in a year or so the same people were hiding in the woods, staging a greatest guerilla war in history against the occupation.

    It's like Solzhenitsyn said, "If you have to choose between two murderous psychopaths, you probably go for the one that speaks your own language".

    (Stalin spoke Russian with a huge Georgian accent, but still better than Hitler)
    Last edited by Cyrylek; 11-11-13 at 08:52 PM.

  6. #166
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    Re: Most Important Allied Member of WWII

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Poland was attacked by Hitler from the West and by Stalin from the East, in accordance with the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, in September of 1939.

    The USSR sure was totalitarian since its birth, but that was never a choice of Russians and other captive peoples: the Leninists never won any elections, and retained their power by systematic extermination of all and any opposition.
    Yep... I thought you were implying that Poland dependent prior to the war. As a Pole that lived in Russia I was confused as to why you wouldn't know that, but you do. All good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  7. #167
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    Re: Most Important Allied Member of WWII

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I think you are 100% correct. They DID steal the technology.
    And another thing....Let's not forget that the very economic and technological survival of the hideous empire is to a great extent a result of our Western naivety, idealism and greed (take it in any proportions you like).

    Under the Lenin's New Economic Policy (the "fascist" phase, 1920-1929, give or take, when strictly controlled private enterprise and foreign investments were encouraged), there was a rush of American money, expertise and entrepreneurial energy. The Democratic sugar daddy Armand Hammer made his big bucks there (and kept close ties with Stalin and subsequent Soviet bosses); and the charismatic Fred C. Koch - father of our own libertarian sugar daddies, the Koch Bros. - also was there, and as productive as anyone (he emerged from the USSR cursing and spitting, and terminated all business contacts there; I do recommend his book, A Business Man Looks at Communism, but still - the deed was done...).

  8. #168
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    Re: Most Important Allied Member of WWII

    That's very hard to say. I picked Russia before I realized the U.S. is on the list (I realize the U.S. was one of the allied nations, but was thinking of the question as "which was our most valuable ally, in which case, it's Russia hands down). I would put those two at roughly equivalent in terms of overall causal importance to winning the war.

  9. #169
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    Re: Most Important Allied Member of WWII

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    If your question is pertaining to who helped the most to win, I would say the UK.
    Scratching my head on this one. Not to downplay their role, but how do you qualify that?

  10. #170
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    Re: Most Important Allied Member of WWII

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    The scale was big, yes, but that does not determine contribution. The USA contributed in two theatres of war, lent other major Allies significant and important supplies, was integral in breaking codes that lead to the shortening the war, etc. The Russians just threw tons of unarmed and badly armed men into machine gun fire until they withered down the Germans. That was great, but that was about it.
    You're making a fallacy, pointing out important successes the Western Allies made while oversimplifying Soviet ones. As an example, I could say that the Soviets conquered half of Europe, accounted for 80% of German casualties not to mention Roumanian, Hungarian, and other Eastern European countries, and finally conquered Berlin, while all the Western allies did was throw bombs from the air, but it's obviously a fallacy.
    Also, the Soviets were certainly not unarmed, badly trained, and incompetently led during the latter years of the war.
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