View Poll Results: Should we go into Syria

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  • Yes, the red line has been crossed

    27 11.84%
  • No way Jose, not our problem

    201 88.16%
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Thread: Should we go into Syria

  1. #261
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    This is not about assisting either side.

    This is about punishing the Syrian government for its use of chemical weapons on it's own people.
    Dead is dead. Why punish them for that and not just the mass slaughter of its own people? We have no business being in Syria. Why is China or Russia or France or Germany not doing it. Why us? We are broke. We have a large number of unemployed. We have a fiasco of a health system. Our education system is in need of work. Our National Infrastructure rating is a D-. 70% of California's dams, bridges, waterways and highways are failing. We have a failing southern border.

    A... screw it... let's spend billions on another war!

    Anybody in favour of this war, in my opinion, doesn't understand our problems and/or care about America itself.
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  2. #262
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    ....If that argument is the best one that can be mustered in its case.... then implicitly it makes a fairly strong argument that the cases are not that terribly different.



    We do, actually. The Syrian government employed a portion of it's CW stockpile. Confirmed by the Intelligence Community here at home, and its' incidence confirmed independently by Doctors without Borders abroad.
    "We do, actually. The Syrian government employed a portion of it's CW stockpile. Confirmed by the Intelligence Community here at home, and its' incidence confirmed independently by Doctors without Borders abroad.[/"

    Bullcrap. Carla delPonte of the UN says rebels used chemicals. No one has presented any evidence that it was not the rebels in the most recent use. Saying they have incontivertible evidence and actually producing that evidence are two different matters. The only thing that Doctors
    Without Borders confirmed was that chemical weapons were used.

  3. #263
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    On the contrary, we have a huge national interest in Syria. Not only is it Iran's chief ally in the region, but it is responsible for enabling the deaths of thousands of American servicemembers. It's provides aid to Hezbollah and (until recently) al-Qaeda, has WMD production and stockpiles, and has the ability to destabilize a high-impact portion of the globe. Geography and politics both require that we maintain our interests in the middle east, and Syria is a big piece of that.



    Interesting. Are you also a farmer?
    Invading Iran is also a national interest... should we then? North Korea too?
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  4. #264
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Did you miss the words "its' incidence"? As stated - the use of chemical weapons was confirmed by DWB, and the fact that those weapons had come from the regime was confirmed by the U.S. and British Intelligence Communities.
    Oh and our intelligence is just great right?

    Hmm, now that's an argument that requires an interesting implication. Given that the U.S. and British governments say that they do know who was responsible, what is your background expertise in U.S. / FIVE EYES collections capabilities that you are able to state with certainty that this is a false claim?
    I can speculate.



    because we are toothless saps, Chris. Our "warnings" and "let me be clears" and "we will take this very seriously's" are worth approximately a bucket of warm spit in the Middle East right now. Hopefully we will actually (finally) start to back up our words with action, and this will change in the future. But as of a month ago, if I were advising Assad, I would have told him he could pretty much ignore U.S. blustering as a vast majority of their populace didn't want to get involved, and their president was unlikely to break his pattern of behavior in order to cross them.
    Well, I don't know but neither do you. Also nobody is sure, they have said "little doubt." Not "we KNOW who did this."

    In the meantime, limited use achieves two objectives: 1. it lends credibility to his detterence. North Korea has nukes for this (and Iran wants nukes for this), but Assad has chemical shells, so that's what he uses to ensure regime survival - but you have to demonstrate willingness and capability. and 2. it establishes a baseline for future use. You don't go all-out immediately after the President of the U.S. issues a redline statement, that puts him in a situation where his hand is forced. You boil the frog slowly, and after you have imported enough SA-20's from Russia that you feel that you have a strong enough deterrent from an air campaign - the trick is to introduce the system in such a way that U.S. reaction is limited and mitigated.
    That's a good theory. I don't necessarily disagree, but I still don't believe we should be involved. These people are probably no better than the current regime.


    Yup. And while it's not impossible, so do the people who claim that 9/11 was an inside job to legitimize an American invasion of Iraq. But claims of conspiracy which lack evidence have a forum.

    Nope, it's perfectly topical to the discussion. And why were rebel snipers shooting at the UN officers? They were being let in to do some inspection of some sort I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Regardless, the argument for a series of strikes and a limited campagin in Syria does not depend on Chemical Weapons usage by any player - though that does increase rather the urgency for it.
    I think its a horrible idea.

  5. #265
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Dead is dead. Why punish them for that and not just the mass slaughter of its own people? We have no business being in Syria. Why is China or Russia or France or Germany not doing it. Why us? We are broke. We have a large number of unemployed. We have a fiasco of a health system. Our education system is in need of work. Our National Infrastructure rating is a D-. 70% of California's dams, bridges, waterways and highways are failing. We have a failing southern border.

    A... screw it... let's spend billions on another war!

    Anybody in favour of this war, in my opinion, doesn't understand our problems and/or care about America itself.



    This is going to happen whether you like it or not.

    Deal with it

  6. #266
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    This is going to happen whether you like it or not.

    Deal with it
    Only after Russia flips their Janus coin.

  7. #267
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    This is not about assisting either side.

    This is about punishing the Syrian government for its use of chemical weapons on it's own people.
    Meh, let someone else handle that.
    Besides, we have no proof it was the government who made that decision. Those rebels are deceptive little ****s.
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  8. #268
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    On the contrary, we have a huge national interest in Syria. Not only is it Iran's chief ally in the region, but it is responsible for enabling the deaths of thousands of American servicemembers. It's provides aid to Hezbollah and (until recently) al-Qaeda, has WMD production and stockpiles, and has the ability to destabilize a high-impact portion of the globe. Geography and politics both require that we maintain our interests in the middle east, and Syria is a big piece of that.
    Okay... and Iran is what? A pathetic little nation wanting to play billy bad ass. I am not scared of Iran.
    Enabling the deaths of thousands of servicemembers is enough reason to send thousands more to their deaths? Then we will discover a new threat in another nation that was responsible for enabling the thousands of deaths in Syria... and so on..... and so on... and so on....

    It has the ability to destabilize a high impact area of the globe you say? Why has all the fighting been localized so far? If it was stable before the rebellion..... why are we helping the rebels?

    As far as politics......... Politics require we only support the military actions we can afford.


    Interesting. Are you also a farmer?
    Not exactly sure what that has to do with anything.... Syria fights its own civil war and Korea and China will keep shipping out my imported cheaply made goods.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
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  9. #269
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Once Israel strikes, then everyone in the USA will have the cover they need to support action in Syria. Then they will criticize Obama for not doing what what they were against.

    For me, take out the offensive capabilities of all bad guys and minimize civilian losses as much as possible. Then we can further feed our military complex.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Invading Iran is also a national interest... should we then? North Korea too?

  10. #270
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    This is going to happen whether you like it or not.

    Deal with it
    When did I say otherwise...? I am dealing just fine, thank you. I am so far removed from America's problems that it is really refreshing.
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