View Poll Results: Should we go into Syria

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  • Yes, the red line has been crossed

    27 11.84%
  • No way Jose, not our problem

    201 88.16%
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Thread: Should we go into Syria

  1. #161
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Oh, sure. As long as the US is the sole superpower, there is no real problem. We can disengage with no problem. When in ten years or so relative power in the world has shifted and there are a number of similarly powerful nations an a multitude of nuclear powers it will be less simple. That is the reason we have to get the next few years right.

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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I don't want us to really do much about Syria, except for maybe similar to what we did in Libya, then it's up to the Syrians.

    I have to agree though that the president's "line drawing" and failure to back that up with any action makes us look weak.
    I don't want one set of our boots on the ground either. I want us to rain down the horror of all living hell on the users of poison gas, and let the Red Cross or the French clean up the mess. Not one from either side of this conflict is worth one US life. Obama has shown ZERO evidence of leadership or credibility.

  3. #163
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Looking at Iraq, I'd say it doesn't make a lot of difference. US involvement hasn't got a great record in resolving civil wars, now does it?
    Well, civil wars tend to spring up because there is an intractable dispute that does not lend itself to a win-win solution between two hostile and suspicious groups, neither of which trust a central power to deal fairly with the issue. Nobody has a great record with that.

    But if you really look at Iraq today and Syria today and see no difference you may want to check your eyesight - you may be coming down with a severe case of myopartisania, which can severely distort incoming signals.

    That being said, a Syria with U.S. intervention would have looked more like a Libya than an Iraq. Agreeably, nowhere you'd want to raise a family - but certainly better than where we are now.

    You seem to think that provided it isn't still in full-scale civil war mode, Iraq must be a success story.
    No, not so much as any country can ever be a "success story". We all contain within ourselves the seeds of our own destruction. Do you really have to create strawmen in order to defend your failed position?

    Please note: the Allies have virtually pulled out of Iraq. It's supposed to be 'job done', yet it's still in a state of near-anarchy.
    Hey, You'll get no argument from me that this administration pulled out way too fast, did a crappy job of doing so, and forfeited much of our hard-won gains; and that it seems poised to do so in an even worse manner in Afghanistan. But you may want to head back to your history if you really want to describe Iraq at current as almost anarchy.

    I've read hundreds of your posts over the years Will. Do you deny being a neo-con?
    not at all - I think that our interests and our beliefs fairly roughly align over the long term. That's the Neo-Con argument: that since the United States is going to be involved in international affairs, it should at least do so in such a manner as to promote representative government and individual human rights.

    But propaganda is deliberate falsehood in order to sway a susceptible public. Neither are you susceptible nor I deceptive. Since you've read hundreds of my posts, you know that - I've never pretended to be anything other than what I am.

    One attack? Are you being deliberately mendacious?
    No, but if I was in a more accusatory mood I might point out that you are being so - to bring up a single attack and then accuse the other person of limiting the discussion to a single attack when they reply to your original point is a poor attempt at bait-and-switch.

    Civilian deaths are back up into the thousands per month. Not one incident but dozens. And this is a country we've supposedly put right, returned to democracy, reintroduced order. God help them if we set our sights on a lesser goal!

    Iraq records highest monthly death toll in years | World news | theguardian.com
    In years, eh? So you are deliberately taking an outlier data point and using as your base? Interesting.

    That being said, we did reintroduce order and put things to right. And then our child-president decided to throw his base a bone by abandoning the (wise) strategy of withdrawing according to events on the ground in favor of withdrawing according to what polled well. And so Iraq is now worse off than it needed to have been, but still better than it was.

  4. #164
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    [/I][/B]they adopt the attitude of "we hate you America, look what you've done to our country!" And then we're the bad guys.




    I noticed a good while ago that when all is said and done a lot more gets said than is ever done.

    The big problem for the USA in Syria is that no matter which side wins the result will not be good for the USA.

    So the best thing for the USA in Syria is that the current conflict carry on forever.

    On the plus side that would be good for arms merchants.




    I noted that the overwhelming majority of those who voted in the poll agree that going into Syria is not a good idea for the USA.
    Of course, damned if we do, damned if we don't, like usual. I'm tired of people making demands of us, to put our troops lives on the line, for us to spend TONS of money, and for what, so we can leave the place as effed up as it was when we got there, and then all the people blame us. It's really quite discouraging.

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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Well, civil wars tend to spring up because there is an intractable dispute that does not lend itself to a win-win solution between two hostile and suspicious groups.
    and especially so when groups are tied by blood Prevalence of consanguineous marriages in Syria. [J Biosoc Sci. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

    Loyalty to blood kin is the one factor most overlooked in discussions such as these, as we fail to recognize the effect of all that Arab inbreeding.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  6. #166
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Let's see..... two years ago, cpwill said that we should go in just enough to secure Syria's WMD stockpiles and facilities, and remove them, and provide security for refugees trying to flee the fighting.



    ....now, the regime (and possibly the opposition, who is heavily infused with Al Qaeda) are using those stockpiles of WMD's, and over 100,000 people have been killed....


    additionally and perhaps equally or more significantly, the United States has just demonstrated in the worst possible way that it is a feckless, weak-willed nation unwilling to actually back it's talk (at least, under the current administration). The value of the U.S. Security Guarantee just got seriously degraded the world over. Do you know what the most important thing about a threat is? You have to be willing to back it up.
    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    I think Putin is calling Obama's bluff and it's working.

    They see the US as weak and vulnerable.
    First and foremost, we must remember that Syria is in the midst of a CIVIL WAR! That means it's THEIR national problem, not America's!! I don't think that point can be stressed enough.

    Second, unless you can get an international coalition around the humanitarian issues, i.e., civilian flight (refugees) to surrounding countries, you can't possibly hope to get enough support for international military intervention.

    Third, and most important, you have to have proof that the Syrian government sanctioned the use of chemical weapons. Reports are that the alleged use of chemical weapons was done by the Syrian rebels. So, I would hope everyone takes a step back from all the rhetoric and try to really listen to what's being said in the media as well as by public officials.

    To answer the question, "Should we (USA) go into Syria?" Only if it can be proven that chemical weapons were used AND sanctioned by the Syrian government AND ONLY as part of an international military force with the U.N. leading the charge. America is NOT the police force for the world!
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

  7. #167
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman909 View Post
    Oh no? The 'Line" he drew was crossed months ago. He's all talk and no stones. He should be the president of France.
    I give two ****s about any "line" he drew. Syria is not our problem... Both sides of the conflict are not friends, allies, or anything of the sort. It will be like Afghanistan all over again, in that we helped the fight against the russians over there decades ago, look how that turned out for us. We got involved in the Iraq-Iran conflict. Look how that turned out for us.

    We need to butt out, I don't give a **** what "lines" were drawn that we won't be backing up.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  8. #168
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    I give two ****s about any "line" he drew. Syria is not our problem... Both sides of the conflict are not friends, allies, or anything of the sort. It will be like Afghanistan all over again, in that we helped the fight against the russians over there decades ago, look how that turned out for us. We got involved in the Iraq-Iran conflict. Look how that turned out for us.

    We need to butt out, I don't give a **** what "lines" were drawn that we won't be backing up.
    I agree 100% that the lives of anyone either side of this conflict is not worth the cost of one American life. But when he disgraces himself while representing our nation, that has to have consequences in the world theatre. I suppose our president need not worry about appearing to be without honor, since he has no honor to project.

  9. #169
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Read this whole story and keep in mind the US Media will promote the agenda that is good for USA business. That'd be the Business of War and sales of arms, developments of ports, pipelines, etc. Let's not let the Mainstream Media snooker us again. Look for the facts.


    Syrian rebels manufactured chemical weapons outside Damascus - News - World - The Voice of Russia: News, Breaking news, Politics, Economics, Business, Russia, International current events, Expert opinion, podcasts, Video

    "The Syrian military found chemical weapons in the rebels’ tunnel located in the Jobar suburb of Damascus. Later the Syrian state TV showed the discovered poisonous agents and medical drugs.

    Journalist Yara Saleh of the Al-Ihbariya Syrian information channel provided The Voice of Russia with more details about this discovery.

    “The rebels launched two missiles filled with poisonous gas in the Jobar neighbourhood which caused Syrian soldiers’ nausea and asphyxia.

    Some time later when the Syrian army managed to take that suburb by storm they found the warehouse and laboratory where shells were stored and stuffed with poisonous agents. Boxes with new gas masks were also found, they carried labels ‘Made in US’. The fact that the rebels did not use those gas masks proves that they had not been attacked with any poisonous gases.

    Two glass vessels with labels ‘Made in Saudi Arabia’ were also found there. Weapons and explosives made in Saudi Arabia were found in Syria in the past as well. Experts will determine the contents of those vessels.

    In addition, they found plastic vessels containing unidentified chemicals, some strange white powder and a lot of various explosives and munitions.

    The Syrian government is concerned that the rebels might have more stocks of such chemical agents that they could use against civilians.”

    On the 21st of August 2013 several western and Arab TV channels reported that chemical agents had been used in the Damascus suburbs of Ain Tarma, Zamalka and Jobar. According to the media, between 20 and 625 people died as a result of an attack with the use of shells containing the sarin nerve gas
    Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/2013_08_25/Syrian-rebels-manufactured-chemical-weapons-outside-Damascus-8968/"

  10. #170
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman909 View Post
    I agree 100% that the lives of anyone either side of this conflict is not worth the cost of one American life. But when he disgraces himself while representing our nation, that has to have consequences in the world theatre. I suppose our president need not worry about appearing to be without honor, since he has no honor to project.
    I give two ****s about what other nations think about his honor. There will be another President that comes along eventually. Supporting Sending American troops to die defending our honor because a President opened his stupid mouth is the stupidest thing I can think of.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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