View Poll Results: Should we go into Syria

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  • Yes, the red line has been crossed

    27 11.84%
  • No way Jose, not our problem

    201 88.16%
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Thread: Should we go into Syria

  1. #151
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Yeah, it's all great in Libya and Iraq these days, isn't it?
    Meh, it's okay in some areas, less okay in some areas. How is it going in Syria these days? Everything working itself out well since the U.S. decided not to get involved?

    A very close friend of mine has been working in Iraq for an international humanitarian organisation for 4 years now. I hear first-hand accounts of how it is. Forgive me if I accord those greater weight than the bluster of neo-con propaganda.
    Does your very close friend tell you that conditions in Iraq are worse than conditions in Syria, or is that your own unique contribution?

    I've been to Iraq myself and I have hundreds of friends and compatriots who have done the same. Neo-Con propaganda?

    Yup. That was a serious hit, and it's going to enable AQI's follow-on actions for some time - although many of those same fighters will probably also flow north into Syria. But really. You've got one attack to put against an ongoing civil war? Doesn't that scream to you that you overextended your argument here?

  2. #152
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Meh, it's okay in some areas, less okay in some areas. How is it going in Syria these days? Everything working itself out well since the U.S. decided not to get involved?
    Looking at Iraq, I'd say it doesn't make a lot of difference. US involvement hasn't got a great record in resolving civil wars, now does it?


    Does your very close friend tell you that conditions in Iraq are worse than conditions in Syria, or is that your own unique contribution?
    You seem to think that provided it isn't still in full-scale civil war mode, Iraq must be a success story. Please note: the Allies have virtually pulled out of Iraq. It's supposed to be 'job done', yet it's still in a state of near-anarchy.

    I've been to Iraq myself and I have hundreds of friends and compatriots who have done the same. Neo-Con propaganda?
    I've read hundreds of your posts over the years Will. Do you deny being a neo-con?



    Yup. That was a serious hit, and it's going to enable AQI's follow-on actions for some time - although many of those same fighters will probably also flow north into Syria. But really. You've got one attack to put against an ongoing civil war? Doesn't that scream to you that you overextended your argument here?
    One attack? Are you being deliberately mendacious? Civilian deaths are back up into the thousands per month. Not one incident but dozens. And this is a country we've supposedly put right, returned to democracy, reintroduced order. God help them if we set our sights on a lesser goal!

    Iraq records highest monthly death toll in years | World news | theguardian.com
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  3. #153
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Simply put.. no. It is a tribal war, and they are never pretty and never good to get involved in. Fact is, with Assad we know what we got.. without Assad we have no idea what we will get.. and that scares me far more than letting Assad stay in power.
    PeteEU

  4. #154
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    So, all those trillions of dollars, all those lives and for what? A post-invasion Iraq that is substantially the same as it was under Saddam. The difference being the civilian body count is far higher than it was under Saddam.
    No question that die invasion and last ten years were too expensive in men and treasure. But I truly think you are probably wrong in using the body count numbers alone. Before the invasion the numbers were similarly height only hidden. I looked into the number a few years back and am as sure as can be given the poor quality of data that at least as many persons were dieing annually of authoritarian methods, malnutrition, bad water and poor medical conditions as died in the conflict and thereafter.

  5. #155
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    No question that die invasion and last ten years were too expensive in men and treasure. But I truly think you are probably wrong in using the body count numbers alone. Before the invasion the numbers were similarly height only hidden. I looked into the number a few years back and am as sure as can be given the poor quality of data that at least as many persons were dieing annually of authoritarian methods, malnutrition, bad water and poor medical conditions as died in the conflict and thereafter.
    Caused by Western sanctions, no?
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  6. #156
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    The Arabs in the Middle East seem to disagree with you.


    Bush trumps Barack in the Arab world: President Obama is proving an embarrassing flop in the Middle East – Telegraph Blogs
    <snip>
    Today’s eye-opening IBOPE Zogby International poll for the Arab American Institute Foundation should be a wake-up call to the White House on its failing foreign policy. After two and a half years of bashing Israel, appeasing rogue regimes such as Iran and Syria, and promising a new era of relations with the Muslim world, Washington is now less popular in major Arab countries than it was when George W. Bush was in the White House.
    The poll surveys Arab opinion in six countries: Morocco, Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates, and reveals that “Arabs see the Obama Administration’s handling of most Middle East policy issues as having made no contribution to improving US-Arab relations. Only on the issue of the “no-fly zone over Libya” do a majority of Saudis and plurality of Lebanese see a positive contribution.”
    Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi, and UAE are all big fans of Bush due to his war efforts to destabilize the Middle East. Anything that would get their ability to influence other countries they are fans of. Especially Saudi and Lebanon.*
    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    In your poll, it showed confidence in obama in Egypt at 28% and dropping like a stone in a pond.

    Zogby has him at 5% in Egypt.

    I wonder which survey talked to the survivors and what day.
    Of course its dropping like a stone, hes been talking of air strikes in a region that is already pissed at the US for meddling in its affairs for the past 100 yrs. I can't say I blame them.
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  7. #157
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Caused by Western sanctions, no?
    That is not quite true. The sanctions were decided and implemented by the UN and would not have been necessary had Saddam not been so pig headed with the UN inspectors. That was really very stupido of him.

    At that time there was no international norm to protect your population, but even so he overdid is sometimes. Sort of like the Assads, the difference being that since 2005 you are no longer allowed to decimate your subjects.
    Last edited by joG; 08-25-13 at 07:58 AM.

  8. #158
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Simply put.. no. It is a tribal war, and they are never pretty and never good to get involved in. Fact is, with Assad we know what we got.. without Assad we have no idea what we will get.. and that scares me far more than letting Assad stay in power.
    In a bipolar or uni-polar world that would be fine. In a multi-polar world proliferating it is a recipe for disaster in the middle term. We are entering a period of change. And I am afraid we are going to need a new set of rules. R2P was only the first small step.

  9. #159
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    I say none of the above to any of your suggestions.
    **** em.
    I would certainly like for us to reduce the strategic significance of that region for us. Imho, that place is one of those games where the only way to win is not to play.
    The petro and the geographic location are the two main things I know of that make the ME strategically important at all. I think that importance of both of those things could be greatly reduced by a US which made a concerted effort to do so. Let the Old World muck about with that tar-baby if they want. But I don't think that we need to keep doing it just because the older kids have been doing it for so long.
    I may be wrong.

  10. #160
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    Re: Should we go into Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Well Obama's red line has been crossed and we went into Libya for far less so what do you think? "Residents of Damascus suburbs recount massive assault by Assad army; videos show small children convulsing on the floor, foaming at the nose and mouth. Doctor: Injuries correspond with sarin gas "
    "The men, women and children lying undisturbed in their beds had looked so peaceful they might have been just sleeping, Abu Nidal thought, as he and other rescuers dragged their bodies into the street."

    "His was one of many accounts of a massive assault on the eastern suburbs of Damascus that activists say killed more than 500 people on Wednesday morning. They say some of the bombs were loaded with chemical agent, which would make it the worst chemical attack since the conflict began"
    Syrians retrieve 'sleeping' dead after alleged chemical attack - Israel News, Ynetnews
    I'd be ok with it under two preconditions:

    - We must be part of a multinational force, not doing it alone.
    - We dethrone and then quickly leave, not spending 10 years there.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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