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Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

What is the reason that we see less and less Traditional Family Structure?

  • Affirmative Action Opened All the Right Doors...

    Votes: 2 5.7%
  • Girls Just Wanna Have Fun!

    Votes: 3 8.6%
  • It is extremely complex issue...

    Votes: 30 85.7%

  • Total voters
    35
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1069
If irony were avocados, we'd all be eating a lot of guacamole right about now.

guacamole needs more flavor. Spices. Garlic. Tomato. Onions. That is what I am...the flavor. ;)

If I don't totally communicate with perfect openess towards you, it is because you have yet to show that you actually desire to get along. You attacked me from the onset. You have never stopped. That is fine, but for you to talk about Irony is truly Ironic.

If you were willing to communcate openly and without your sarcastic defensive nature, you would see that I asked genuine questions and that I am seeking to find a balance with you. Should we start chanting...

Why don't you just address the questions at hand? That would be a start.
 
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The point that you are missing for some reason, and perhaps it is because you don't have kids, is that once you have kids you should do what is BEST FOR THE CHILDREN as we as what is best for the family.
No, I would do what's best for me AND my child.

That is one way to look at it. I think exactly the opposite. I think that there is no waiting until the "Right" time to have kids. If you think that you would have resentment towards your kids for them keeping you from "travel" and such, then PLEASE DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN!!!
The "right" time is when I WANT them. So yes, there most certainly is a "right" time.

You can do ALL OF THOSE THINGS with kids. How do I know that this is a fact! We do it! Simple logic...that is the stuff that really confuses 1069! LOL!

We travel...get this, WITH OUR KIDS! All over the place.

Here is the thing that you guys don't seem to get.

INCLUSION!
No offense, but you don't know what you're talking about. Perhaps you include your kids on your "adventures", but you haven't a clue what my "adventures" entail. Not only would it have been impossible with a child, they would have taken any child away from me for endangerment among other things.

Can you imagine? I see these old parents all over the place. BMW's. Hawaiian vacations. Huge house. But they don't spend any time with their kids. They spent so much time getting the things that they thought that they needed in order to have kids that they missed the point ... Kids do not need all of that crap. They need parents that are with them, not out maintaining some level of life that they didn't even need i nthe first place. THAT is my point.
It has nothing to do with getting a bunch of things that I think my future kid may "want". It has everything to do with doing the things I want to do that I cannot do with a child. I'm not talking about simple trips here and there, I'm talking about a way of life that I lived for over a decade. A child could not be included.

And no, I don't need to "re-read" anything. The OP said it was detrimental for women to wait until their 30s to have kids. Obviously, I disagree. I think it's much more detrimental to have a mother who is unhappy with her choice to have a kid too early and feels resentment for not being able to do the things she wanted to do.
 
rivrrat

No, I would do what's best for me AND my child.

Wonderful.

The "right" time is when I WANT them. So yes, there most certainly is a "right" time.

I did not say that there is not a "Right" time. Read again please.

No offense, but you don't know what you're talking about. Perhaps you include your kids on your "adventures", but you haven't a clue what my "adventures" entail. Not only would it have been impossible with a child, they would have taken any child away from me for endangerment among other things.

I have had adventures like that as well. Keep doing what you want then. Great. When you have kids, a responsible person stops. People that don't want to stop should never have kids. No big deal. Not everybody has kids. Not everybody should. It doesn't mean anything other than they did not have kids. Super. Some people are monks. Some people are crack addicts. The world is a big place and full of variables...Chaos, if you will...

It has nothing to do with getting a bunch of things that I think my future kid may "want". It has everything to do with doing the things I want to do that I cannot do with a child. I'm not talking about simple trips here and there, I'm talking about a way of life that I lived for over a decade. A child could not be included.

And no, I don't need to "re-read" anything. The OP said it was detrimental for women to wait until their 30s to have kids. Obviously, I disagree. I think it's much more detrimental to have a mother who is unhappy with her choice to have a kid too early and feels resentment for not being able to do the things she wanted to do

Sounds good. Not sure what your gripe is then. Sounds like you have a lot of this figured out. If I don't understand your situation, that is because I don't know what it is. Try not to take this personally.

Honestly, you are out of your field on this topic. My post speaks of general societal trends and specifically about people that are actually parents. You are not a parent so you really don't understand the first thing that parenting or having children entails. Thanks for sharing though!
 
Gosh, the case against non-traditional families is revealing itself to be pretty anemic, here.
I wonder if anyone's really all that surprised. :roll:
 
1069

That is one aspect of the overall picture. Maybe later we can address some other influences as well? Let me know when you are ready and open. :2razz:
 
I think there is several reasons.

Firstly many people now adults came from broken homes and dont have much faith in marriage.

Secondly women are discriminated working with children passed up for promotion etc.

Also divorce courts appear to favour women discouraging men to get married in the first place.

Also people are sold this hollywood/disney happy ending where the perfect couple get together which isnt true people get on each others nevres have stupid arguements and can be quite petty.

Another reason this may seem minor and odd but CELLPHONES cause people to cheat on each other its seems harmless enough you get someones mobile number they text you, how are you ? ,etc next thing ya know your texting them when you are upset about something. Slowly you develope a relationship just through that, how are you? becomes what you wearing? and developes from there. All im saying is there is more ways to meet people these days.
 
Another reason this may seem minor and odd but CELLPHONES cause people to cheat on each other its seems harmless enough you get someones mobile number they text you, how are you ? ,etc next thing ya know your texting them when you are upset about something. Slowly you develope a relationship just through that, how are you? becomes what you wearing? and developes from there. All im saying is there is more ways to meet people these days.

Two words: Family Plan.

There's never a time when I can't go on the internet, look at my account, and see exactly what numbers my husband and kids have been calling. And when they called them. And how long they talked.

Not that I'd ever do such a thing. :angel?:
 
Honestly, you are out of your field on this topic. My post speaks of general societal trends and specifically about people that are actually parents. You are not a parent so you really don't understand the first thing that parenting or having children entails. Thanks for sharing though!

Because I don't have a child of my own means I don't know the first thing about raising one? How damn assuming of you, not to mention condescending. You know nothing about me or what I've done, or other people's children I've helped to raise. And, I don't think that my being without a child of my own makes my opinion invalid. Complete and utter arrogance on your part.
 
Honestly, you are out of your field on this topic. My post speaks of general societal trends and specifically about people that are actually parents. You are not a parent so you really don't understand the first thing that parenting or having children entails. Thanks for sharing though!

I recognize that I am entering this late, so if I am taking this out of context, forgive me. Respectfully, Bodi, I disagree. I hate hearing statements like this. I am not a parent. Yet, as an adolescent therapist, I often must help parents with ways to help parent their children. I am very good at it and use my knowledge of being parented, my knowledge of relationships between people, and my knowledge and observations of both the kid and the parents. Making suggestions is not something I take lightly. I don't adhere to the adage that if you've never walked in my shoes, you can't give me advice. Perhaps my training gives me a leg up, but when a parent says something to me like, 'well you're not a parent, so what do you know', I'll often say, 'well you are and things aren't going well...don't close your mind to a suggestion.'
 
Perhaps my training gives me a leg up, but when a parent says something to me like, 'well you're not a parent, so what do you know', I'll often say, 'well you are and things aren't going well...don't close your mind to a suggestion.'

....'well you are not a licensed psychotherapist, so what do yo know' is how I would jump back, but that's me.
 
....'well you are not a licensed psychotherapist, so what do yo know' is how I would jump back, but that's me.

But I am. :confused:

Jerry did you forget a 'smilie' at the end of your post. :mrgreen:
 
But I am. :confused:

Jerry did you forget a 'smilie' at the end of your post. :mrgreen:

It was joke, I butchered it, my bad :(




Capt'n: Sup G, yo kid be spellin som wak chit dog! YaaaaMeeeeeen?!?

Parent: You're not a parent so what to you know?

Capt'n: You a Psychotherapist? NO you ain't. You think you all dat but if U was any good would you be sit'n in my crib, drinkin my booz askin ME what time it is? Naw you wouldn't, but here you is, so shut up let the Capt'n tell you how its goin down......yo boy, he be crazy dog.....
 
It was joke, I butchered it, my bad :(

Smilies, Jerry. Always remember the smilies. ;)



Capt'n: Sup G, yo kid be spellin som wak chit dog! YaaaaMeeeeeen?!?

Parent: You're not a parent so what to you know?

Capt'n: You a Psychotherapist? NO you ain't. You think you all dat but if U was any good would you be sit'n in my crib, drinkin my booz askin ME what time it is? Naw you wouldn't, but here you is, so shut up let the Capt'n tell you how its goin down......yo boy, he be crazy dog.....

I speak jive. Let me translate:

CC: Hi, I've been noticing that your child has been doing some things that aren't so healthy. Allow me to help you.

Parent: Dog?!! Don't be talking chit to me and don't be sticking your sorry self in my bidness.

CC: Ah, but since I have training, and your methods don't seem to be working, I think i can provide some suggestions that could make things better. Your kid has some difficulties that need to be worked out.
 
I recognize that I am entering this late, so if I am taking this out of context, forgive me. Respectfully, Bodi, I disagree. I hate hearing statements like this. I am not a parent. Yet, as an adolescent therapist, I often must help parents with ways to help parent their children. I am very good at it and use my knowledge of being parented, my knowledge of relationships between people, and my knowledge and observations of both the kid and the parents. Making suggestions is not something I take lightly. I don't adhere to the adage that if you've never walked in my shoes, you can't give me advice. Perhaps my training gives me a leg up, but when a parent says something to me like, 'well you're not a parent, so what do you know', I'll often say, 'well you are and things aren't going well...don't close your mind to a suggestion.'

Quite right you are, Cap'n. I dealt with this (and still do, to a certain extent) with my sister in law. Heaven forbid I might actually know something that could help her, even though I did not yet have a child when her son was born....I mean, I couldn't possibly have picked up a few things from my experiences with other children. :roll: And now, it's so ingrained in her I think, that she won't take any advice because well, my kid's younger, so I couldn't possibly know anything about a 2 1/2 year old. :roll:

Sadly, parents aren't immune to similar comments and barbs. Some of y'all have seen me mention this already, but I belong to a forum for Charlotte mommies. Recently, we had a thread started where many mothers of multiple children said they hated it when mothers of only one child offered them advice, because us mothers with one child couldn't possibly have enough experience to offer them any sort of advice. Well, sure, I can't tell anyone what it's like to have two or more kids, or even necessarily how to keep the peace amongst everyone....at least not from personal experience. But that doesn't make what I have to say any less valuable. One of us singleton moms just might have the magic suggestion, and with an attitude like that, you'd never hear it because you were too....snobby, for lack of a better word, to listen.

*By the way, when I use "you" here, it's the collective "you", not anyone here specifically. *
 
Honestly, you are out of your field on this topic. My post speaks of general societal trends and specifically about people that are actually parents. You are not a parent so you really don't understand the first thing that parenting or having children entails. Thanks for sharing though!

So if I can't get pregnant then I shouldn't have a say on abortion? If I've never been to Iraq or in the military I can't have a say on the war?

I thought we moved past this line of thinking.
 
So if I can't get pregnant then I shouldn't have a say on abortion? If I've never been to Iraq or in the military I can't have a say on the war?

I thought we moved past this line of thinking.

Great points.
 
Mikhail
Another reason this may seem minor and odd but CELLPHONES cause people to cheat on each other its seems harmless enough you get someones mobile number they text you, how are you ? ,etc next thing ya know your texting them when you are upset about something. Slowly you develope a relationship just through that, how are you? becomes what you wearing? and developes from there. All im saying is there is more ways to meet people these days.

Cellphones CAUSE people to cheat? :shock:
 
Originally Posted by BodiSatva
Honestly, you are out of your field on this topic. My post speaks of general societal trends and specifically about people that are actually parents. You are not a parent so you really don't understand the first thing that parenting or having children entails. Thanks for sharing though!

This statement is not phrased well. I agree. To those that seem upset and or annoyed, my bad. I typed it fast and did not word it well, but the idea is not even debatable. I think that if any sane and intelligent person actually thinks about what I was trying to say, they would understand what I meant. Any reasonable person that wanted to understand what I meant, if they were confused, would just ask a clarifying question.

I understand people like 1069 and their attitudes, she just lacks common sense. Couple that with her defensive nature and hostility...well, there you go. :lol:

rivrrat You just don't seem that open either to be honest. You can harp on one aspect of what I said and get all upset if you like. That is your choice. I assume you are an adult... is that what you do in conversations? Pick out the one comment you don't like and get upset...or do you listen to everything that a person says and clarify certain points.

Really? How idiotically stupid are some of you? :lol: What a ****ing joke.

I understand as much about being a woman as a non-parent understands about being a parent. Sure, I get things like Menstral Cycles and Emotions and the Womb...but I don't really Understand what it is to be a woman...do I?

Do you really Understand what it is to be a parent? How could you if you aren't a parent? You can't. If it is not your kid (biological or adoptive) then it just doesn't equate. I had lots of experience with kids prior to being a parent. I understand what some of you are talking about. Really.

If you are not a parent...you think that you really know what it is like? What it entails? Get real. That is what non-parents say when they want to have a valid opinion. Their opinion is interesting but it means next to nothing. Can they help with advice and such...sure. That is a different issue though. I can help my dad with aspects of Electro Optics and Focul Planes, but I am not a Physicist and there is so much that I don't Understand about that that I simply shut my mouth and listen. Do you tell a Stock Broker at a dinner party that your opinion is valid when the subject arises since you have traded stocks a little? LOL! Give a Doctor medical advice any time soon? Yeah, parenting is a profession to a degree...Give a parent advice? They will listen..nod, and KNOW that you are just spouting **** with the hopes of sounding Intelligent just as the Doctor or Dentist or Herbalist will. That is all...

I guess that you also Understand how it is to have a child that almost dies too...huh? Tell me what you know of that. Been to the hospital and waited...what? I am waiting...

I have opinions about the Military. But who's is really more valid, my opinion or Caine's or GySgt's or Cherokee's opinions. Get hold of yourself people. Am I saying that people can't have opinions? If that is what you think your a fool. WE all have fields that we know... some people just can't accept that. rivrrat is one...

Move past this type of thinking? It is a new type of thinking that has people convinced that they are experts in areas that they aren't that is the real problem. Empowering eveybody is great, if they understand limitations. IF they don't then they just become arrogant jerks. Not you...in general. This type of thinking... LOL!

Stace, I am sure that you will agree that you gained an Understanding upon being a mother that you had no clue about prior to being a parent. It is not just the knowledge, it is the entire package that a parent cannot fully explain to one that is not. I am sure that if you think about it you will see what I mean.

Do none of you honestly know about "Levels". Life moves and we progress through certain Understandings and Realizations. Is it just easier to Attack what you don't like? Yes. That is the challenge that we all face and those with courage enough to face what they fear and learn from it gain an Awareness that those who don't can't even fathom.
 
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I guess that you also Understand how it is to have a child that almost dies too...huh? Tell me what you know of that. Been to the hospital and waited...what? I am waiting...

I do.
And although I've had nearly a decade and a half to absorb and assimilate the "lesson", I cannot for the life of me tell you what it was supposed to have taught me.
Has it made me a better parent to my now-fully-recovered child?
Not really. It made me overprotective and overbearing to the point that he had no choice but to rebel, no choice but to become deceitful and sneaky, since I allowed him no breathing room.
The lesson I am now learning- being forced to learn- is how to let go.
All parents have to learn it eventually; parents of a child who was once critically ill no doubt have a harder time with it than most.
I look at my six-foot-tall son, a boy in a man's body, and I see a critically ill infant who will die without my constant, 24-hour vigilance, and might die even with it.
This infuriates him. He doesn't remember being that baby, of course, and he doesn't want to be constantly associated with it. He doesn't remember ever being anything but tough and strong and healthy, and he doesn't want any reminders that he was ever fragile and desperately ill. He doesn't want or need my constant vigilance, my protection. He wants to be acknowledged and respected as the independent near-adult that he is. His previous health problems make this difficult for me.

But there's nothing I learned from this experience that would necessarily be applicable or useful to another parent of a critically ill child.
There's no secret knowledge that only you and I- as parents of critically ill children- are privy to. We have little in common, and we don't seem to agree on much. Going through similar experiences apparently left us with entirely different viewpoints.

It's that way with everything; everything in life.
My experiences are not applicable to anyone but me, and neither are anyone else's. And two people can go through the exact same experience, and learn two totally different lessons from it.

I, for instance, have never considered parenting either a "job" or a "profession", and I already stated that on another thread. It's life. It's not "a profession" (which would indicate that you could stop doing it at some point).
It's no more a profession than being female or having brown hair is a "profession". It's who and what I am. It's not a job- it's my life. Being a parent is not a job, either. It's who and what I am.
I understand how it may seem like a "job" to new parents, to parents whose children are still infants... but that's because they do not yet realize how long forever is.
I don't think, in a decade or two, they will still think of parenting the same way (although i could be wrong).
 
Thank you for your honesty. I will read in depth better and respond later. It is clean up the toys time now! The a walk to town and ice cream... later. :)
 
Stace, I am sure that you will agree that you gained an Understanding upon being a mother that you had no clue about prior to being a parent. It is not just the knowledge, it is the entire package that a parent cannot fully explain to one that is not. I am sure that if you think about it you will see what I mean.

Oh, I don't have to think about it, I know that I've learned many things in the past 6 months that I couldn't have TRULY fathomed before becoming a mother. You do have a very valid point....BUT, I would never immediately dismiss the opinions of a non parent, unless they had absolutely NO experience with children whatsoever. I may not take their advice, but I'll at least listen to what people have to say, because like I said, you never know just where that magic piece of advice could come from.


As for the rest of your post...I've got to put my mod hat on and tell you to play nice.
 
rivrrat You just don't seem that open either to be honest. You can harp on one aspect of what I said and get all upset if you like. That is your choice. I assume you are an adult... is that what you do in conversations? Pick out the one comment you don't like and get upset...or do you listen to everything that a person says and clarify certain points.

I don't seem that "open" about what, exactly?

And yes, if someone says something in a conversation that pisses me off, I address *that* immediately. I didn't have anything else to say to you regarding the rest of your last post, except the absolute arrogance and assuming attitude you took towards me. Basically, you told me to get out of the thread because I didn't have kids of my own. The thread isn't just about currently having kids, but about the choices that women make in their lives regarding their families. With all due respect, being a woman in her 30s (which was targeted by the OP), I think I have every reason to be participating in this thread. And, just by being a woman in our society, I also have reason to be participating in this thread.

If you don't like what I have to say and wish to just dismiss it, then do so by not responding to my posts. But don't sit there and tell me that my opinions about women and families are not valid.
 
Stace
Oh, I don't have to think about it, I know that I've learned many things in the past 6 months that I couldn't have TRULY fathomed before becoming a mother. You do have a very valid point....BUT, I would never immediately dismiss the opinions of a non parent, unless they had absolutely NO experience with children whatsoever. I may not take their advice, but I'll at least listen to what people have to say, because like I said, you never know just where that magic piece of advice could come from.


As for the rest of your post...I've got to put my mod hat on and tell you to play nice.

I am trying to play nice...I really am. :2razz:
I am a Virgo, no nonsense "cut out the crap" kinda guy.

I know that I've learned many things in the past 6 months that I couldn't have TRULY fathomed before becoming a mother. You do have a very valid point....

That is it.
That is my point.
That is all.
Thank you...

would never immediately dismiss the opinions of a non parent, unless they had absolutely NO experience with children whatsoever. I may not take their advice, but I'll at least listen to what people have to say, because like I said, you never know just where that magic piece of advice could come from.

I take advice from non-parents...if you can believe that?! Why? You are right! You never know where a great idea will come from.
 
Cellphones CAUSE people to cheat? :shock:

Yea ok all im trying to say is there is more temptation around the fact that more people are single in itself makes it so.
 
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