View Poll Results: What is the reason that we see less and less Traditional Family Structure?

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    4 9.09%
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    34 77.27%
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Thread: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

  1. #21
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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by OKgrannie View Post
    You guys are idolizing the 50's. Believe me, it wasn't that great. In all of history before that, women worked in the family stores, on the family farm, etc. and while they had their children with them, they didn't dedicate their entire days to them.
    Stay at home moms work as well. I "stay at home" and my number one priority is my kids but I also am in charge of everything that needs to be done around the house and I do paperwork for my husband's company as well.

    In that brief period of time, the fifties, when men "worked" and women "didn't" (actually, women ended up with a 24/7 work schedule and were often exhausted from it), men generally paid little attention to child-rearing, so children were deprived of a father's attention.
    Well today millions of children are being raised without any attention from their biological father. I'm absolutely certain that having a father who eats dinner with you everynight is better than having no clue as to where in the world your father is let alone having any idea about who he is. And futhermore there is no way in hell that a woman who works 40 hours a week spent as much time with her toddlers as the mom who stayed home with the toddlers.


    In a relationship, the one with the money has the power, so women were left powerless, men felt because they were the wage-earners, they were entitled to a maid/cook/nanny,etc. at home. Women generally had less education, so for financial reasons they were stuck in the relationship. Today, women not only want the socialization that comes from the job, they want to make use of their expensive educations, and for many careers, it is not practical to take off for a few years. The kids are not necessarily the losers because of this, they are generally getting MORE attention from Dads and they are generally getting as much attention from Moms as they did historically.
    First off, I agree many women were stuck in bad marriages back in the day when women didn't work outside the family home and weren't educated. However that does not mean that the institution of marriage isn't favorable for children. That doesn't mean that fathers are unnecessary. Far too many women today view their independence as a sign that fathers are altogether unnecessary. The rates of children being born out of wedlock rise even as teen pregnancy rates fall. Women before were stuck in homes that were less than ideal. Now women are "opting" to purposefully put their children in homes that are less than ideal.

    And there is no way that the increasing number of children who have no idea where their dad is, or the children who haven't talked to their dad in over a year, or the children who were never told who their dad is are spending more "quality" time with their dad's.

  2. #22
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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Woah OKgrannie! You are batting 53%! What I really think is Interesting is that you have been thanked 61 times in 116 posts.

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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Originally Posted by OKgrannie
    You guys are idolizing the 50's. Believe me, it wasn't that great. In all of history before that, women worked in the family stores, on the family farm, etc. and while they had their children with them, they didn't dedicate their entire days to them
    No. Not the 50's. Leave it to Beaver was not real in any sense. I idolize all the women in history who INCLUDE their children in their day, whatever that day includes. Talloulou surely does this. I have friends that do, one guys wife runs their business and includes the kids all day in projects and chores and helping with the gardening. So, yes, they did dedicate their entire day to them.

    Back in the day, in tribal cultures, kids are included in all aspects of the day. Their are rituals that indicate that children are evolving into adults. Today, in our culture there is nothing like this. Today's Western Society is bland and does not treat children well. I think that parents are not so selfish as they are lost and unaware.

  4. #24
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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_Utah View Post
    Woah OKgrannie! You are batting 53%! What I really think is Interesting is that you have been thanked 61 times in 116 posts.

    Is that a lot?

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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_Utah View Post
    No. Not the 50's. Leave it to Beaver was not real in any sense. I idolize all the women in history who INCLUDE their children in their day, whatever that day includes. Talloulou surely does this. I have friends that do, one guys wife runs their business and includes the kids all day in projects and chores and helping with the gardening. So, yes, they did dedicate their entire day to them.
    Please note that including children in your day and packing them along with you does not guarantee that one is paying more attention to them. Sometimes children get more attention from adults in daycare where activities are planned for the children's benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_Utah View Post
    Back in the day, in tribal cultures, kids are included in all aspects of the day. Their are rituals that indicate that children are evolving into adults. Today, in our culture there is nothing like this. Today's Western Society is bland and does not treat children well. I think that parents are not so selfish as they are lost and unaware.
    In those times, kids learned what they needed to make their way in life by watching and working along with their parents. They participated in the work at the level where they could contribute. Except for housework and other household upkeep chores, that is not possible today. I believe that smaller families and making sure every child is wanted will guarantee that children are treated BETTER.

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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Stay at home moms work as well. I "stay at home" and my number one priority is my kids but I also am in charge of everything that needs to be done around the house and I do paperwork for my husband's company as well.
    Kudos to you. You have my admiration.





    First off, I agree many women were stuck in bad marriages back in the day when women didn't work outside the family home and weren't educated. However that does not mean that the institution of marriage isn't favorable for children. That doesn't mean that fathers are unnecessary. Far too many women today view their independence as a sign that fathers are altogether unnecessary. The rates of children being born out of wedlock rise even as teen pregnancy rates fall. Women before were stuck in homes that were less than ideal. Now women are "opting" to purposefully put their children in homes that are less than ideal.

    And there is no way that the increasing number of children who have no idea where their dad is, or the children who haven't talked to their dad in over a year, or the children who were never told who their dad is are spending more "quality" time with their dad's.
    You're absolutely right.

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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Originally Posted by OKgrannie
    In those times, kids learned what they needed to make their way in life by watching and working along with their parents. They participated in the work at the level where they could contribute. Except for housework and other household upkeep chores, that is not possible today. I believe that smaller families and making sure every child is wanted will guarantee that children are treated BETTER.
    I think that we are agreeing on most of these concepts.

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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by OKgrannie View Post
    Please note that including children in your day and packing them along with you does not guarantee that one is paying more attention to them. Sometimes children get more attention from adults in daycare where activities are planned for the children's benefit.
    This is one of the hugest problems I see with the studies that show working moms spend as much "quality" time with their kids as stay at home moms. It flies in the face of realilty. I assure you if I am feeding my two kids lunch they are getting more attention then if they were 2 kids in a crowded daycare of 20 being fed cafeteria style by "workers." Yet that time isn't counted as quality time. If I'm breastfeeding my baby on demand that baby is getting far more attention than a baby in a daycare. If I'm on the phone and pick up my crying 1 year old that is not viewed as quality time. The idea that the "quality time" is equal between working and non-working moms is total bat $hit brained attempts to undermine the commitment of stay at home moms. No one would argue that 30 kids in an orphanage are getting the same quality of care that 2 kids in a home with a loving mom and dad are getting regardless of how many activities the orphanage plans for the kids, no matter how well fed they are, ect. It implies that kids don't give a rat$ a$$ who feeds them and it doesn't matter to a two year old that mom is folding laundry while they play at mom's feet. According to studies the idea that mom is in "view" of a playing toddler means squat. Well talking toddlers will tell you otherwise. They do love quality time where they are getting all the adult's attention however we shouldn't underestimate the security and well being they feel as they toddle around the house while mom does other things in plain view.




    In those times, kids learned what they needed to make their way in life by watching and working along with their parents. They participated in the work at the level where they could contribute. Except for housework and other household upkeep chores, that is not possible today. I believe that smaller families and making sure every child is wanted will guarantee that children are treated BETTER.
    Again with the "wanted" children. More hor$e$hit as it implies that all these millions of fatherless children would be better off dead. Again if you ask those kids the majority will tell you otherwise. Abortion has not ensured that all biologically parents are valuing their children. These kids would be far better off in intact homes with present fathers but that doesn't meant that death is preferable when the ideal is not there.

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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    IMO there is a deteriorating moral climate of America that has everything to do with what we see today regarding the nuclear family. Abortion, sex habits and orientation, promiscuity, suicide, drugs, violence…..all affect the climate. And it certainly seems like the traditional family is a thing of the past or will be shortly if trends keep going the way they are.


    “The United States Census in 2000 showed that “2 parent families now represent less than 25% of ALL households in America, down from 45% in 1960.”



    Over the same 40 year period the percentage of single-parent families tripled, the divorce rate doubled, the percentage of people getting married all dropped lower than ever before.

    Cohabitation increased 1000% and the rate of illegitimacy rose by 500%.
    Abortions are performed on 80% who are not married.”


    What do these figures indicate?


    These stats are taken from Bill Bennett’s INDEX OF LEADING CULTURAL INDICATORS; AMERICAN SOCIETY AT THE END OF THE TWENTIETH CENTURY.


    “1. Violent crime up 467% in 40 years
    2. The number of state and federal prisoners up 463% in 40 years
    3. Out of wedlock births up 461% in 40 years
    4. The number of children living in single parent homes up threefold
    5. Out of wedlock births account for 32% of all births nationally-highest rate Washington DC at 64% and lowest rate Utah at 17%\
    6. 26% of ALL pregnancies aborted
    7. Gonorrhea infection rates of 150 per 100,000
    8. Television turned on 7 hours and 12 minutes a day in the average household.

    Key social indicators suggest that marriage in America is weakening. Americans have been less likely to marry and more likely to divorce. Marriages are also less happy. They found that 54.6 % of girls and 62% of boys felt that cohabitation was a good idea and that 50% of teens believe that out of wedlock childbearing is now a worthwhile lifestyle.”
    They suggest that in 100 years Americans more than likely will marry 4 times and have extramarital affairs with NO public censure. This will be looked at as a conscious evolutionary process.”


    Are any of these positive changes?

    It is quite obvious to me whats happened. Secular humanism has taken over. Happiness isn’t what it use to be, that’s for sure. Today….. amorality leads to happiness, especially sexual promiscuity. The family itself and whats good for the family has been replaced by self-gratification and immediate pleasure.


    My career, my job, my hobbies, my sexual pleasure, my view of the world……..what I want, what I need, what I can get…………and it doesn’t matter how I get it, just so I am the one who makes out big and that I am the one that is happy, cause its ALL ABOUT ME. Its not about my family, my spouse, my neighbors, my fellow man, my community, my country, my responsibilities and especially my GOD. I am the one that matters FIRST.



    Barna is a firm that analyzes American culture and this is what they had to say.



    “By a 3-to-1 margin (64% vs. 22%) adults said truth is always relative to the person and their situation. (2002) (For more information, see the Press Release titled "Americans Are Most Likely to Base Truth on Feelings" from Feb 12, 2002)

    Percentage of adults who view certain behavior as morally acceptable (2003)
    61% of adults view gambling as a morally acceptable behavior.
    Enjoying sexual thoughts or fantasies about someone 59%
    Living with someone of the opposite sex without being married, sometimes called co-habitation 60%
    Having an abortion 45%
    Having a sexual relationship with someone of the opposite sex to whom you are not married 42%
    Looking at pictures of nudity or explicit sexual behavior 38%
    Using profanity (36%)
    Getting drunk (35%)
    Having a sexual relationship with someone of the same sex 30%
    Using drugs not prescribed by a medical doctor 17%
    http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?

    Page=BarnaUpdateNarrow&BarnaUpdateID=264

    http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=Topic&TopicID=22

    http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=Topic&TopicID=38


    IMO societies growing acceptance of divorce, premarital cohabitation and sexual openness coupled with increased numbers of female headed households and the lack of good parenting skills, AND ESPECIALLY the lack of morality has led us to where we are today.

    Society today for the most part is living without God as its moral center and it certainly shows. IMO this is the big factor explaining how we got this way. We are a modern society in every way and our children are suffering for it. You take God out of the equation and just look what happens.

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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Having an abortion 45%
    Having a sexual relationship with someone of the opposite sex to whom you are not married 42%
    Looking at pictures of nudity or explicit sexual behavior 38%
    Using profanity (36%)
    Getting drunk (35%)
    How can an abortion possibly be viewed as more morally acceptable than cursing , drinking, or viewing porn?

    Thats just f-u-c-k-ed up thinking right there.

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