View Poll Results: What is the reason that we see less and less Traditional Family Structure?

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Thread: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

  1. #191
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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    irresponsibility.
    And that is what it really is.... people have argued to their last breath with me about the selfishness and irresponsible nature of today's society, but that simply affirms the deplorable stateh that society is in...
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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Actually, it's a byproduct of women's liberation. Women aren't dependent upon men for their livelihood. The family doesn't have to stay in tact nor are shotgun weddings the norm anymore. I'm not saying that women shouldn't be liberated. It's a factor though. It's a major change in our society.
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  3. #193
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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Nothing in there indicates that the traditional mother, father and child family is not the most balanced and most healthy for the child...
    That's not really a fair post. Nothing indicates that they are. I rebutted your entire post and that's all I get?
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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    The family is falling apart, especially in the poor neighborhoods, where I grew up. I was so jealous of my friends that still had fathers, it still chokes me up to this very day. I don't care how much people spin these facts, children do so much better with two parents, even if they are gay, that is accepted today, believe it or not.

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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Right, I should be saying "nuclear", not traditional. Since that is the case, I do understand the broader historical scope. Having a mother, father and child is the best and including the extended family is even better.

    Seeing as how you concede that we're talking about a nuclear family structure, rather than a traditional one, I see no evidence that it is "superior" to anything else humanity has come up with, either before or since.
    Only one generation of children- the Baby Boomers- were really raised in this societal structure; it was really only the norm from immediately after WW2 until the civil rights/ women's lib movement of the 1960s.
    Less than 20 years.
    And those were 20 of the most profitable and affluent years our nation has ever known. Nearly everybody could afford to leave both cities and farms, and move to the suburbs.
    And a large percentage of the population did just that.
    They had an unprecedented amount of belongings, an unprecedented amount of leisure time.
    Still; I see no evidence that the Baby Boomers are "healthier" or happier or more successful than anyone else, either older or younger.
    Anyway, they're only middle-aged, so I guess we're really going to have to wait until they're all dead to evaluate how their lives went and determine if the nuclear family structure truly was the stunning success you claim it to be.
    Last edited by 1069; 11-15-09 at 11:00 PM.

  6. #196
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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Actually, it's a byproduct of women's liberation. Women aren't dependent upon men for their livelihood. The family doesn't have to stay in tact nor are shotgun weddings the norm anymore. I'm not saying that women shouldn't be liberated. It's a factor though. It's a major change in our society.
    I agree. It is a byproduct of a very good thing... liberation/suffrage. That being said, how does it benefit kids to be in day care or babysat by the TV simply so that mom and dad can have two incomes and careers? I don't think that it does...

    Originally Posted by Kelzie
    That's not really a fair post. Nothing indicates that they are. I rebutted your entire post and that's all I get?
    You're right... I didn't give you the same respect. Sorry. I will get to your post soon.

    Originally Posted by Jackboot
    The family is falling apart, especially in the poor neighborhoods, where I grew up. I was so jealous of my friends that still had fathers, it still chokes me up to this very day. I don't care how much people spin these facts, children do so much better with two parents, even if they are gay, that is accepted today, believe it or not.
    Well said and thank you for sharing...

    Originally Posted by 1069
    Seeing as how you concede that we're talking about a nuclear family structure, rather than a traditional one, I see no evidence that it is "superior" to anything else humanity has come up with, either before or since.
    Only one generation of children- the Baby Boomers- were really raised in this societal structure; it was really only the norm from immediately after WW2 until the civil rights/ women's lib movement of the 1960s.
    Less than 20 years.
    And those were 20 of the most profitable and affluent years our nation has ever known. Nearly everybody could afford to leave both cities and farms, and move to the suburbs.
    And a large percentage of the population did just that.
    They had an unprecedented amount of belongings, an unprecedented amount of leisure time.
    Still; I see no evidence that the Baby Boomers are "healthier" or happier or more successful than anyone else, either older or younger.
    Anyway, they're only middle-aged, so I guess we're really going to have to wait until they're all dead to evaluate how their lives went and determine if the nuclear family structure truly was the stunning success you claim it to be.
    Every person has a masculine and feminine side... the healthiest possible way of raising children is balance. A mother and a father are the best way to do this, all things being equal.
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  7. #197
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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    Actually, all manners of families have worked for thousands of years. Mother, mother, mother, father and children. Mother, father, children, aunts, uncles, grandparents. Mother, children. In fact, I believe the only broad conclusion is that the best families provide love and support. Of course, even that has been incredibly short lived as far as families go. Children have historically been seen as property and a source of labor, but that's a different topic.
    Agreed, but my sole point is that the "best" manner, all things being equal, is raising a child with a mother and a father...

    I don't know that anyone's saying one manner of a family is superior to another.
    Correct, instead they are saying that they are all equal. They logically and obviously are not, since a man/man partnership is simply physically different, thus not equal, to a woman/man or woman/woman relationship.

    I don't see how that action passes any judgement about families (since I'm sure if you asked, the lesbian couple would consider themselves a family), or men. Other than showing that they are not including a male in their family, of course.
    I consider them families too, and for homosexual couples, to me, the best way in which they could help children is to adopt, not to become impregnated. Two of the best parents I know are homosexual males...

    They do have this technology. It's called adoption. Plenty of gay male couples do it.
    Yep...

    What this shows is that fathers who are not interested in their children are harmful to their children. It makes no conclusion about if there is no father.
    Any parent not interested in their child is essentially emotionally and mentally harming their child. If there is no father, there is no balance...

    LOL! This statistic reminds me of how many people claim they vote in the elections or go to church. I imagine most dads would claim they had a close relationship to their children. That still doesn't mean that a nuclear family is the superior form.
    That may be, but it doesn't make it untrue either... I am in the process of a divorce and I spend more time with them than their mother.

    Not surprising. But not indicative that the second partner must be male. Kids are hard for one person to handle.
    I state that there should be two parents. Two is better than one, whether hetero or homosexual. After that, I advocate that male/female is better than male/male or female/female... for the child, not the partners.

    Again, this is looking at broken families and showing the negative side affects. It says nothing about a same-gender family.
    I am talking about what I consider, and I truly believe, is the BEST situation. There are tones of great parents out there that are non-traditional/nuclear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  8. #198
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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Hey Bodhisattva,

    Long time no chat eh?

    Here's my two cents. The Gen y generation saw their parents divorce in extremely large numbers in extremely awful ways. Some of the lessons learned there is that you cannot rely upon one person for your happiness and that marriage is highly overrated. Apparently several studies have confirmed that a sizable number of people in the 44-18 age group feel that happiness comes from yourself and you shouldn't rely upon someone else. That manifests IMO in the relatively lower marriage rates and high singles rates.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Hey Bodhisattva,

    Long time no chat eh?

    Here's my two cents. The Gen y generation saw their parents divorce in extremely large numbers in extremely awful ways. Some of the lessons learned there is that you cannot rely upon one person for your happiness and that marriage is highly overrated. Apparently several studies have confirmed that a sizable number of people in the 44-18 age group feel that happiness comes from yourself and you shouldn't rely upon someone else. That manifests IMO in the relatively lower marriage rates and high singles rates.
    Hey OC, yep... long time.

    Interesting and that fits together with what we see now, less marriages and more failed marriages. What to do though? The children still need to be raised, and what is the best model to acheive the best result?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Hey Bodhisattva,

    Long time no chat eh?

    Here's my two cents. The Gen y generation saw their parents divorce in extremely large numbers in extremely awful ways. Some of the lessons learned there is that you cannot rely upon one person for your happiness and that marriage is highly overrated. Apparently several studies have confirmed that a sizable number of people in the 44-18 age group feel that happiness comes from yourself and you shouldn't rely upon someone else. That manifests IMO in the relatively lower marriage rates and high singles rates.
    We're starting to realize that we're not monogamous by nature.

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