View Poll Results: What is the reason that we see less and less Traditional Family Structure?

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  • Affirmative Action Opened All the Right Doors...

    6 13.64%
  • Girls Just Wanna Have Fun!

    4 9.09%
  • It is extremely complex issue...

    34 77.27%
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Thread: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

  1. #161
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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    No, not all of them. But some of them definitely. But then again my reasons for staying home are selfish as well.

    I think it's beneficial for someone to stay home particularly and especially when the kids are very young. Many many people will say it's financially impossible for someone to stay home. In a good portion of those cases, that's simply not true. They are selfishly choosing to both work because they want to, which is distinctly different from "needing" to.
    I still don't see it.

    I know your opinion is that it's beneficial for someone to stay home with young children.

    You also said there are differences in wanting to work and needing to work.

    Neither of those statements answered my question.

    Are you saying that women are selfish if they work (for any reason) when they have children living at home?
    Last edited by missypea; 04-07-08 at 11:57 PM.


    I would chat with her when I'm feeling particularly snarky, but I wouldn't ever call her on the phone.

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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by missypea View Post
    I still don't see it.

    I know your opinion is that it's beneficial for someone to stay home with young children.

    You also said there are differences in wanting to work and needing to work.

    Neither of those statements answered my question.

    Are you saying that women are selfish if they work (for any reason) when they have children living at home?
    If the family can financially afford for someone to stay home and no one does then yes. Absolutely. Kids who are too young for school need a full time parent. They simply aren't going to get the same level of care at a daycare then they would get from a parent who committed to giving them the time and focused on making them the number one priority.

  3. #163
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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    If the family can financially afford for someone to stay home and no one does then yes. Absolutely. Kids who are too young for school need a full time parent. They simply aren't going to get the same level of care at a daycare then they would get from a parent who committed to giving them the time and focused on making them the number one priority.
    This has been my point as well.

    Those that can financially support their family with no problem, yet decide to get a nanny, or put their kid in day care instead of staying home and teaching them and doing imaginative play and all the things that a parent could and should do instead of getting a substitute...

    And on top of all of that and if all things are considered equal, it is better to have two parents, one female and one male, one mother and one father... than to not.
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  4. #164
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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I recognize that I am entering this late, so if I am taking this out of context, forgive me. Respectfully, Bodi, I disagree. I hate hearing statements like this. I am not a parent. Yet, as an adolescent therapist, I often must help parents with ways to help parent their children. I am very good at it and use my knowledge of being parented, my knowledge of relationships between people, and my knowledge and observations of both the kid and the parents. Making suggestions is not something I take lightly. I don't adhere to the adage that if you've never walked in my shoes, you can't give me advice. Perhaps my training gives me a leg up, but when a parent says something to me like, 'well you're not a parent, so what do you know', I'll often say, 'well you are and things aren't going well...don't close your mind to a suggestion.'
    Suggestions are fine. Truly. But if a person has not walked in anothers shoes, then they simply don't truly understand. I mean, I "understand" many things about what it must be like to be a woman in birth, I have been to two births... but I wouldn't presume to tell a woman who has gone through it what it is like or to give advice about it. I might say what I observed, but that is about it.

    Non-parents giving parents advice is fine and all... but until they are getting up 6 times a night burping and feeding a baby, trying to get it back to sleep and the baby not, etc, then a non-parents opinion about what it must be like to have a lack of sleep or whatnot is pure crap, unless they have a sleep issue that relates.

    Insight is different than understanding.

    Can a non-parent have good advice? Sure... but that is not the issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    In my opinion, it is the high level of stress placed on survival needs combined with consumerism and the emphasis being placed on consumer productivity that has greatly broken down the family structure. At first glance we could easily say that this is the final outcome of the civil rights movement but I don't think it is at all. Civil rights and specifically gender equalization are not about abolishing families but about making roles more dynamic and interchangeable. People have more pressure put on them to make money so they can accumulate goods than ever before.

    If you live in a big city or suburb, it takes so much effort to just survive that the idea of raising children sounds preposterous. Relationships break down easier because there is less time for bonding and establishing deep connections; people have to balance their survivalist lives with maintaining functional, productive and satisfying relationships.

  6. #166
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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    In my opinion, it is the high level of stress placed on survival needs combined with consumerism and the emphasis being placed on consumer productivity that has greatly broken down the family structure. At first glance we could easily say that this is the final outcome of the civil rights movement but I don't think it is at all. Civil rights and specifically gender equalization are not about abolishing families but about making roles more dynamic and interchangeable. People have more pressure put on them to make money so they can accumulate goods than ever before.

    If you live in a big city or suburb, it takes so much effort to just survive that the idea of raising children sounds preposterous. Relationships break down easier because there is less time for bonding and establishing deep connections; people have to balance their survivalist lives with maintaining functional, productive and satisfying relationships.
    Well stated. I wonder if the state of society is not something that, since we created it, we can alter? Why do families need two incomes? Because they want and want. This is mostly a middle class thing, to be sure.

    Families don't "need" a nice two stroy, four bedroom house with a drying machine for their clothes if they have a mom and dad and one kid. They don't need an Audi or a Volvo. They don't "need" a big TV or Stereo system. They "want" that stuff. Materialism... like you say.

    It does take effort, but why don't people stop trying to Keep up with the Jones's? Be content with what they have and/or minimalize their wants so that one parent can stay home for the first five years and be home when the kids get home from school, etc? It isn't that hard to do really, and the value to the kid is basically infinite.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  7. #167
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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Well stated. I wonder if the state of society is not something that, since we created it, we can alter? Why do families need two incomes? Because they want and want. This is mostly a middle class thing, to be sure.

    Families don't "need" a nice two stroy, four bedroom house with a drying machine for their clothes if they have a mom and dad and one kid. They don't need an Audi or a Volvo. They don't "need" a big TV or Stereo system. They "want" that stuff. Materialism... like you say.

    It does take effort, but why don't people stop trying to Keep up with the Jones's? Be content with what they have and/or minimalize their wants so that one parent can stay home for the first five years and be home when the kids get home from school, etc? It isn't that hard to do really, and the value to the kid is basically infinite.
    The answer to your questions, it's that we (and by "we" I tend to refer to North America) have created a culture of entitlement, and then supplanted the economy of that culture into other parts of the world via globalization, where is now proliferates. It's why we are facing global financial collapse: the culture of material accumulation at all costs.

    I worked on an organic farm in Ontario a few years ago, just for a few weeks, and they have a self-sustaining system there where the vast majority of their needs were met. While my life revolves around more than life on the farm, I can't help but wonder about how humanity is being ghettoized in this creation of ours. The majority of the world's populations now live in cities. Coincidence?

    To answer your question about reversing this trend... yes, we did create it, with our very imaginations. It didn't just come out of nowhere. But to change it... hmmm... that would be complicated at this point. There first must be awareness, which is lacking, followed by will to change, which is lacking even more. Like most human eras, I suspect the shift will happen traumatically after the next financial collapse, which will be happening within the next few years.

  8. #168
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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Well stated. I wonder if the state of society is not something that, since we created it, we can alter? Why do families need two incomes? Because they want and want. This is mostly a middle class thing, to be sure.

    It does take effort, but why don't people stop trying to Keep up with the Jones's? Be content with what they have and/or minimalize their wants so that one parent can stay home for the first five years and be home when the kids get home from school, etc? It isn't that hard to do really, and the value to the kid is basically infinite.
    It is a very complicated issue, and not just one thing or the other. Several cultural and societal changes have happened since the 50's that have made it very difficult to live on just one income, unless at least one of a "couple" has higher than average earnings. Just paying basic rent, food, and bills is difficult for many middle and lower income young people these days. I suspect that the women's movement had at least a peripheral effect, and when high numbers of women started entering the workforce, economic factors adjusted accordingly. That's just a guess on my part.

    Another factor seems to be that kids, for whatever reason, don't seem to be learning effective relationship skills, and they give up on a marriage without any seemingly good reason. My personal observations over the past 30 years is that women tend to be the partner who wants out of the relationship the vast majority of the time (hope I don't get flamed by the other women her for saying that). 50-60 years ago, this was not common, probably because women depended on men to financially care for them.

    And then the kids. The children are the real casualty in what has happened to marriage and divorce rates. Rare is the young woman who seems to want to stay home and nurture her children. Even the ones I know personally, who can afford to do so, don't have the desire. When I was young and having babies, it would have broken my heart to leave them with someone else. I ate lots of mac-and-cheese back then.

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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    However, I am worried about family dynamics. Ensuring that kids are raised in homes with supportive parents and financial security is important to society as a whole. I'd suggest the we move towards a lot more part time jobs. This would allow both parents to work and raise kids. Kids would get attention from both parents and financial issues would be more stable because of 2 sources of income.
    Part-time jobs equal zero health care. Financial issues would definitely not be more stable.

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    Re: Why does Society Hate Families? Part II

    God, I hope I am not too late.

    Does the Op take into account the fact that the majority of women who are single are over 50? Or way way past their prime? That's why there are more single women than men.
    Also, many young women are fools. Who choose to stay with men who mistreat them and end up having their children. These children will be like the father-mean and abusive- or will be looking for men like the father. By the time the women wakes up and realizes that that guy will NEVER change she dumps him and by that time she is in her 40s which is too late giving the good guy a chance because the good guy is already taken or still single and not looking.
    I once read an article that said 25% of males will never marry in their life and that 15% of males will marry a foreign women. Why is that happening? Not because males expect for women to be submissive but because most women want to change a male.
    And to many young women have the children of men that are not good and this makes them instantly unattractive to good guys, I hate breaking it to you but most guys do not want to raise another guys child especially when she is still in her early to mid 20s. How could anyone have a child that soon?

    I don't mean to hate on anyone but really women need to start looking closer to the males they are picking out to have relationships/children with.

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