View Poll Results: Is Stop-and-Frisk a Necessary Evil?

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  • Yes

    4 11.11%
  • No

    27 75.00%
  • It's not "evil"

    5 13.89%
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Thread: Is Stop-and-Frisk a Necessary Evil?

  1. #21
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    Re: Is Stop-and-Frisk a Necessary Evil?

    I intensely dislike the focus on race with regard to this issue. Race is important, here, but it feels to me like people are afraid to oppose it on the basis of SIMPLE unlawful search and seizure, which is the main reason why it is illegal, in my view.

    i think it is a mistake to focus primarily on race. Any person has the right not to be stopped or to be touched in an unwanted fashion by anyone else including law enforcement. That is the default. That an area has high crime does not change that fact one bit. Period.

    I believe that in every contest between liberty and security, Bloomberg would choose security. This is a patently unamerican position. The instances where security is chosen over liberty are limited, and those limitations are laid out in the Constitution.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

  2. #22
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    Re: Is Stop-and-Frisk a Necessary Evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    I intensely dislike the focus on race with regard to this issue. Race is important, here, but it feels to me like people are afraid to oppose it on the basis of SIMPLE unlawful search and seizure, which is the main reason why it is illegal, in my view.

    i think it is a mistake to focus primarily on race. Any person has the right not to be stopped or to be touched in an unwanted fashion by anyone else including law enforcement. That is the default. That an area has high crime does not change that fact one bit. Period.

    I believe that in every contest between liberty and security, Bloomberg would choose security. This is a patently unamerican position. The instances where security is chosen over liberty are limited, and those limitations are laid out in the Constitution.
    I don't mind the focus on race, in general. However, I will say that I think the focus should be on constitutionality when it comes to legal discussions. Stop-and-frisk should be ruled unconstitutional, period. Focusing on the racial aspect when bringing it to courts prevents this from happening. It distracts from the main point and thus, sustains the general problem of stop-and-frisk in addition to the racial problem of the policy.

  3. #23
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    Re: Is Stop-and-Frisk a Necessary Evil?

    Well, something has to be done in the black community.

    I can accept stop and frisk might not necessarily be that something but we need to have a real discussion about just how disproportionate problems are and the left has to do more than just shout racial discrimination. We're talking about a community that makes up roughly 12% of the population but slightly more than 51% of murderers. They're failing in virtually every area of society but what is worse is they don't seem to even care about their failing unless it can somehow be blamed on a white person.

  4. #24
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    Re: Is Stop-and-Frisk a Necessary Evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's clearly a form of "papers please". Indiscriminate search and seizure without proper cause or warrant. I find it hard to believe anyone could support such tactics.
    Your not going to get me to claim support for it, because I don't.

    Im just not going to call it racist either........
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  5. #25
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    Re: Is Stop-and-Frisk a Necessary Evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    I intensely dislike the focus on race with regard to this issue. Race is important, here, but it feels to me like people are afraid to oppose it on the basis of SIMPLE unlawful search and seizure, which is the main reason why it is illegal, in my view.
    Totally Agree.... I pretty much said the same thing in my post. Its not "racist", its just a general violation of the 4th.


    I think it is a mistake to focus primarily on race. Any person has the right not to be stopped or to be touched in an unwanted fashion by anyone else including law enforcement. That is the default. That an area has high crime does not change that fact one bit. Period.

    I believe that in every contest between liberty and security, Bloomberg would choose security. This is a patently unamerican position. The instances where security is chosen over liberty are limited, and those limitations are laid out in the Constitution.
    What is boils down to is that this "Stop and Frisk" policy the way NYPD is executing it is a bastardization of the Terry Frisk procedures supported by the Supreme Court.
    Terry v. Ohio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    ^ For more Information about Terry Frisks.

    The way Stop and Frisk is being run in NYPD, according to what I have learned about it, seems like the "reasonable suspicion" that they are using is VERY weak in MOST cases.

    And.... if NYPD keeps it up.... they are likely to cause another Supreme Court review which will reverse the original Terry Frisk decision entirely, causing law enforcement to lose a legitimate tool due to reckless and weak over use of it.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  6. #26
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    Re: Is Stop-and-Frisk a Necessary Evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hijinx View Post
    Stop-and-Frisk is unconstitutional and an excuse to racially profile blacks and latinos in NYC, however through that same policy the police have successfully achieved the greatest gun bust in NYC history. This will certainly be used when Bloomberg and Kelly appeal the recent ruling on this policy. It supports their intentions, but it doesn't necessarily justify their actions.

    When you read passages like:

    "When 3 white cops tell a black teenager that he looks out of place in a Hispanic neighborhood, where he lives, something has gone horribly wrong."

    It's easy to disagree with them on the subject. Do they (or you) see this as a necessary evil to protect NY citizens, or do they (or you) not view this as evil at all? Can this even be classified as an "evil"?

    For the full article check out: wearepeople2.com



    I don't care about the racial profiling part. I care that cops have no damn business stopping and frisking ANYONE without a damn good articulable reason. It offends me right down to my freedom-loving Rebel soul.

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  7. #27
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    Re: Is Stop-and-Frisk a Necessary Evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Andy View Post
    Well, something has to be done in the black community.

    I can accept stop and frisk might not necessarily be that something but we need to have a real discussion about just how disproportionate problems are and the left has to do more than just shout racial discrimination. We're talking about a community that makes up roughly 12% of the population but slightly more than 51% of murderers. They're failing in virtually every area of society but what is worse is they don't seem to even care about their failing unless it can somehow be blamed on a white person.
    You aren't going to fix cultural problems via the criminal justice system.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  8. #28
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    Re: Is Stop-and-Frisk a Necessary Evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Was that sarcasm?
    Nope. By taking weapons away from criminals they commit less crime and kill less people...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  9. #29
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    Re: Is Stop-and-Frisk a Necessary Evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Nope. By taking weapons away from criminals they commit less crime and kill less people...
    You said it lowers crime rates and has saved the lives of countless minorities. The thing is, there is little to no evidence that stop-and-frisk does anything at all. There certainly isn't any evidence that it saves "countless lives." Since your statement isn't based on any actual research, what are you basing it on?

    Ray Kelly says stop & frisk saves lives. There’s no good evidence for that.

  10. #30
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    Re: Is Stop-and-Frisk a Necessary Evil?

    Stop and frisk touches everyone, not just blacks. If you do away with it that allows a criminal to carry a gun without having to feel reprisal.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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