View Poll Results: Who should serve the longer sentence?

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  • Bradley Manning

    2 14.29%
  • Robert Bales

    9 64.29%
  • Both roughly the same

    3 21.43%
  • DK/DC

    0 0%
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Thread: Who should get the longer sentence, Manning or Bales?

  1. #11
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    Re: Who should get the longer sentence, Manning or Bales?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    as for death v life in prison....I've been an MP for over 10 years, seen my fair share of what life is like in military prisons. I still think I would prefer death over spending 50 years in lockup
    Fortunately, I don't have the life experience you have had to be able to imagine myself into that situation, so I'll bow to your greater insight.
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  2. #12
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    Re: Who should get the longer sentence, Manning or Bales?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Fortunately, I don't have the life experience you have had to be able to imagine myself into that situation, so I'll bow to your greater insight.
    yeah, having a conversation with a 50 y/o man who has been in prison for the past 30 years and is looking at 25-30 more is a real eye opener.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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  3. #13
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    Re: Who should get the longer sentence, Manning or Bales?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    If he was acting out of mental illness, then yes, he should be confined in a secure psychiatric facility for life. He has pleaded guilty however, and he has not sought to claim insanity.
    Well, life in prison it is then.

  4. #14
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    Re: Who should get the longer sentence, Manning or Bales?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    With which part of Kevin's post do you not agree? Please explain.
    I am not sure that mass murder of 16 is worse than treason.

  5. #15
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    Re: Who should get the longer sentence, Manning or Bales?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I am not sure that mass murder of 16 is worse than treason.
    I'm not either.

    But Manning wasn't convicted of treason (UCMJ Art. 104).

    Ya can't exactly sentence a guy based upon charges that didn't stick, or take those charges into consideration during sentencing.

    Anyhow, looks like Manning got 35 years less (time served + 112 days), eligible for parole after serving one third of that sentence.

    Pretty safe to say Bates is gonna get slapped on the dick a lot harder than that.
    Last edited by soot; 08-21-13 at 01:20 PM.
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

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    Re: Who should get the longer sentence, Manning or Bales?

    Thirty-five years! Wow! That's exactly ten times the sentence served by Lt. Calley for the premeditated murder of 22 Vietnamese civilians back in the Seventies.

    I guess there's very little likelihood that President Obama will step up and permit a clemency action on behalf of a whistleblower, as Nixon did on behalf of a mass murderer.

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  7. #17
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    Re: Who should get the longer sentence, Manning or Bales?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    ... on behalf of a whistleblower...
    Let's not get carried away and start pretending that Manning isn't a pice of **** lowlife who got off light here.
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

  8. #18
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    Re: Who should get the longer sentence, Manning or Bales?

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    Let's not get carried away and start pretending that Manning isn't a pice of **** lowlife who got off light here.
    You may think of him that way. I think of him as a bit of a hero, and now, certainly a martyr. Why? Because he has done what he has done for excellent, democratic reasons, namely:

    1. Providing the individual citizen with the knowledge s/he requires in order to restrain state power.
    2. He challenges unchecked government secrecy. The checks and balances on the power of the state to cover up and control information is no longer subject to any realistic checks and balances. The sacrifice of people like Manning and Snowden is a service to the entire nation. and to those beyond who look to the US for political and moral leadership.

    For us to buy into the demonisation of Bradley Manning we'd have to believe that the secrets that he passed to wikileaks were legitimately-held secrets, things that the public had no right to know. Things that would prove injurious to the US were they made public. There are many, many people, not just your leftist bogeymen, who believe that this is simply not the case.
    The rapid growth of secrecy matches the rapid growth in bad ideas and administrative incompetence, as overclassification protects “the delicate ego of the foreign policy elite, whose performance in the past decade has been so lethally sub-par...

    Examining at some length the material Manning is alleged to have leaked, Madar compares the claimed harm and the known harm from several leading examples. A classified list of “vital strategic interests” compiled by the State Department reveals such sensitive information as the fact that the Strait of Gibraltar is “a vital shipping lane” and that the Congo is “rich in mineral wealth.” Secrets like these, he writes, may as well have been “tabulated by a reasonably capable undergraduate intern” but their release prompted agonized howling from government spokesmen. “Have we in America become so infantalized that tidbits of basic geography must now be state secrets?” Madar asks. “Maybe better to leave that question unanswered."
    The American Conservative - In Defense of Bradley Manning.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

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  9. #19
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    Re: Who should get the longer sentence, Manning or Bales?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    You may think of him that way. I think of him as a bit of a hero, and now, certainly a martyr. Why? Because he has done what he has done for excellent, democratic reasons,
    I have to disagree. I don't think he had any such lofty reasons for his actions. he was a sad troubled individual and he did what he did in an attempt to "get back" at those whom he felt had mistreated him. he is neither hero nor villian. just a sad confused kid who made a stupid mistake. and now he is paying for it.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  10. #20
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    Re: Who should get the longer sentence, Manning or Bales?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Examining at some length the material Manning is alleged to have leaked, Madar compares the claimed harm and the known harm from several leading examples. A classified list of “vital strategic interests” compiled by the State Department reveals such sensitive information as the fact that the Strait of Gibraltar is “a vital shipping lane” and that the Congo is “rich in mineral wealth.” Secrets like these, he writes, may as well have been “tabulated by a reasonably capable undergraduate intern” but their release prompted agonized howling from government spokesmen. “Have we in America become so infantalized that tidbits of basic geography must now be state secrets?” Madar asks. “Maybe better to leave that question unanswered."

    The American Conservative - In Defense of Bradley Manning.
    If that were the sum total of the secrets Manning leaked, secrets that "may as well have been tabulated by a reasonably capable undergraduate intern", I might be inclined to agree with you.

    If Manning had shown some degree of restraint, or organization, or if anything he did even hinted at the fact that he had some noble (in addition to it being criminal) motive I might be inclined to agree with you.

    But that wasn't the case.

    Manning's leak was an unorganized, grabasstic EFF YOU to "the man" because he was unhappy. He was a grown man who made a grown man's commitment and later found that he didn't really want to live up to the word he gave. So he figured, "If I can't be happy, I'll just burn this place down and I don't care, haven't even bothered to learn, who or what I'm going to take with me".

    It was not Manning's intention to deliberately provide secrets to the enemy.

    But neither was it Manning's intention to engage in some altruistic act of providing the American public with the knowledge they'd need to better inform their decisions in respect to government.

    Manning did what he did because he was a spoiled child.
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

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