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Should these teens be tried as adults

Should the 15 and 16 year old also be tried as adults

  • yes and throw away the key

    Votes: 72 87.8%

  • no, they deserve a second chance

    Votes: 10 12.2%
  • Total voters
    82
P. Kersey said:
Oh.."newbie"....That is a terrible blow I can only hope I'll be able to recover from eventually. You have really cut me to the quick. :roll:

You are funny! LMAO
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Well that wasn't my intention. My intent is get you to stop asking me dumb questions. so I apologize.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Of course no adults that you know would make such a decision. But then you also don't know the thousands of murderers in prison do you?

And I have never ONCE said that a 15 year old is not a kid. But I HAVE said that a 15 year old CAN make ADULT DECISIONS. Please get that right. I'm tired of saying it.
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None of the decisions these kids made were adult-like in any way for that matter. The adults in prison mostly suffer from some malady or another, so they are not healthy or normal adults.

These children may not have healthy minds, but they are STILL kids with child-like minds, processing skills and critical-thinking skills. They lack these things because they're brains are not yet fully developed. This has been observed by experts on MRI images.
 
ChrisL said:
No they aren't. There are plenty of way more heinous murders than this where the convicted did NOT get the death penalty.
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I think that anybody that murders should be put to death... so I don't really care that some aren't put to death. To me, that is a societal error. These kids, at least the shooter, should be put to death.

The decision these kids made was in no way an "adult" decision. If anything, it was an extremely childish decision. The position that this was an adult decision is beyond ridiculous.
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If I made a childish decision and killed a person I would expect to be put to death. Kids know that killing is wrong. Hell, they know that pushing another kid is wrong. The idea that these are "kids making childish decisions so lets not make them face the appropriate consequence" to me, is ridiculous.

Here's an example of a TRULY heinous murderer who was spared the DP. So, save Gary because he is cooperating but kill 15 year olds. That's effing nuts.
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I agree his getting let off is ridiculous... to a degree. But the two are not analogous. He gave them information that helped solve dozens of unsolved murders. The police have to solve these murders. They used the guy to solve the crimes and the guy used a plea bargain to get a lesser sentence. Surely that makes sense?
 
I cannot understand this mindset. I cannot.

"They KILLED somebody, so let's KILL them!" :roll:
 
ChrisL said:
Well that wasn't my intention. My intent is get you to stop asking me dumb questions. so I apologize.
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You seem to want to protect these "children" and I was wondering if you wouldn't mind them living next door...or if you'd allow your kids to hang out with them...Those questions don't seem to be "retarded" or "stupid"...I fully understand why you want to avoid answering them, though.
 
P. Kersey said:
You seem to want to protect these "children" and I was wondering if you wouldn't mind them living next door...or if you'd allow your kids to hang out with them...Those questions don't seem to be "retarded" or "stupid"...I fully understand why you want to avoid answering them, though.
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I don't want to protect anyone. I'm simply against the death penalty. I never said these kids should not be punished. That is why your line of questioning is silly.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Of course no adults that you know would make such a decision. But then you also don't know the thousands of murderers in prison do you?

And I have never ONCE said that a 15 year old is not a kid. But I HAVE said that a 15 year old CAN make ADULT DECISIONS. Please get that right. I'm tired of saying it.
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You have certainly said that but you are wrong. Let us say that we take a random decision that you believe is an "adult" one, and we present it to the courts without them knowing anything about it all, And they say how old was this person who made this decision, and you say 15 your honor. And the judge raises his eyebrows, and promptly throws you out of his courtroom. Why, because 15 can't make that decision.
 
ChrisL said:
None of the decisions these kids made were adult-like in any way for that matter. The adults in prison mostly suffer from some malady or another, so they are not healthy or normal adults.

These children may not have healthy minds, but they are STILL kids with child-like minds, processing skills and critical-thinking skills. They lack these things because they're brains are not yet fully developed. This has been observed by experts on MRI images.
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These aren't kids that were doing something immature, like driving too fast, that hit and killed a person. These aren't kids that locked another kid in a broken freezer behind the shed as a goof and the kid suffocated. These are kids that targeted a person to kill, pulled out a gun and pulled the trigger. You using this, "they are kids that haven't matured" argument is actually kinda strange.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Of course no adults that you know would make such a decision. But then you also don't know the thousands of murderers in prison do you?

And I have never ONCE said that a 15 year old is not a kid. But I HAVE said that a 15 year old CAN make ADULT DECISIONS. Please get that right. I'm tired of saying it.
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You know what you call a adult who murders someone just because they are bored? A sociopath or a psychopath.
 
ChrisL said:
I don't want to protect anyone. I'm simply against the death penalty. I never said these kids should not be punished. That is why your line of questioning is silly.
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"my line of reasoning"?
Those aren't trick questions.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I think that anybody that murders should be put to death... so I don't really care that some aren't put to death. To me, that is a societal error. These kids, at least the shooter, should be put to death.



If I made a childish decision and killed a person I would expect to be put to death. Kids know that killing is wrong. Hell, they know that pushing another kid is wrong. The idea that these are "kids making childish decisions so lets not make them face the appropriate consequence" to me, is ridiculous.



I agree his getting let off is ridiculous... to a degree. But the two are not analogous. He gave them information that helped solve dozens of unsolved murders. The police have to solve these murders. They used the guy to solve the crimes and the guy used a plea bargain to get a lesser sentence. Surely that makes sense?
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None of this justifies killing kids. None of it. Back in the old west they killed people because they didn't really have a place to house them all. We have facilities now. We don't HAVE to kill anybody. We CHOOSE to. That's wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right. Now TWO families will have lost people. Putting kids to death is not helping anyone.
 
ChrisL said:
I cannot understand this mindset. I cannot.

"They KILLED somebody, so let's KILL them!" :roll:
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Vengeance thy name is Human, not the Lord. We will always be an eye for an eye, no matter what Jesus said.
 
TiredOfLife said:
You have certainly said that but you are wrong. Let us say that we take a random decision that you believe is an "adult" one, and we present it to the courts without them knowing anything about it all, And they say how old was this person who made this decision, and you say 15 your honor. And the judge raises his eyebrows, and promptly throws you out of his courtroom. Why, because 15 can't make that decision.
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Never dealt with kids, apparently. As a parent and teacher I deal with kids as young as 12 that make extremely rational and "adult" like decisions every single day. The idea that they can't is ludicrous.
 
P. Kersey said:
"my line of reasoning"?
Those aren't trick questions.
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Look if you're going to keep acting ridiculous, I'll just put you on ignore. Now if you have something to actually add to the conversation instead of trying to give me a hard time, then go for it.
 
ChrisL said:
I cannot understand this mindset. I cannot.

"They KILLED somebody, so let's KILL them!" :roll:
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I have the same struggle. Though, I may be more inclined to support it in cases of serial killers etc. Do you feel the same regardless of the crime?
 
Bodhisattva said:
Never dealt with kids, apparently. As a parent and teacher I deal with kids as young as 12 that make extremely rational and "adult" like decisions every single day. The idea that they can't is ludicrous.
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FACT is that they do not always make good decisions. Children learn from mistakes. Not that I'm classifying this incident as a "mistake"; I'm just noting that fact with children in general. I've raised a child. He is going on 18. I know what I'm talking about.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
You know what you call a adult who murders someone just because they are bored? A sociopath or a psychopath.
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Well one is often not rational enough to be judged for their crimes, and the other has no real conscience, no empathy. That's a poor start if you want someone to take responsibility for their crimes and the court, just as it does with ages and mental development, takes such things into account.
 
opendebate said:
I have the same struggle. Though, I may be more inclined to support it in cases of serial killers etc. Do you feel the same regardless of the crime?
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I'm not sure how I feel about serial killers or mass murderers. Serial killers are a "special" case. Those are people who thrive on killing and actually enjoy it. Some of them have claimed they can't live without killing and how it's a part of who they are. I don't know what to do with people like that.
 
ChrisL said:
Look if you're going to keep acting ridiculous, I'll just put you on ignore. Now if you have something to actually add to the conversation instead of trying to give me a hard time, then go for it.
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I asked you a couple of simple questions that you are avoiding like smallpox. Your continuing evasion is actually an answer.
Point made.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Never dealt with kids, apparently. As a parent and teacher I deal with kids as young as 12 that make extremely rational and "adult" like decisions every single day. The idea that they can't is ludicrous.
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You had me at "adult-like". No wait, I had you. Sorry.

They are pretty good at playing house and dress-up I here as well, but I'm not writing them a mortgage and handing them a martini.
 
A young made a crime today and tomorrow is his 18th birthday.
He's not a kid.He ****ed up the system pretty well.

Basing the evaluation of a crime on the age is stupid imo.
 
Bodhisattva said:
These aren't kids that were doing something immature, like driving too fast, that hit and killed a person. These aren't kids that locked another kid in a broken freezer behind the shed as a goof and the kid suffocated. These are kids that targeted a person to kill, pulled out a gun and pulled the trigger. You using this, "they are kids that haven't matured" argument is actually kinda strange.
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Yes, they should be punished, not killed. Why would anyone think it strange that I don't want the government to kill it's citizens? IMO, it's the opposite. Those people who are screaming that they want these kids to be killed are the strange ones.
 
ChrisL said:
None of the decisions these kids made were adult-like in any way for that matter. The adults in prison mostly suffer from some malady or another, so they are not healthy or normal adults.

These children may not have healthy minds, but they are STILL kids with child-like minds, processing skills and critical-thinking skills. They lack these things because they're brains are not yet fully developed. This has been observed by experts on MRI images.
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Yes and those experts also fully acknowledge that the brain does not fully develop until a person is in their mid to late 20's. And yet we have everyone over the age of 18+ making what is considered adult decisions all the time.

So here is the choice you are left with going by your arguement. Since according to those same experts you talk about a persons brain does not stop developing until at the latest age of 29 then the law should reflect that and no one under the age of 30 should be allowed to be considered as an adult and as such no decision they make should be considered as adult decisions. Which could quite possibly release lots of murderers into our society with time served. Or you can accept the fact that children can, and do, make adult decisions.

I can accept either answer as that would make my criminal record a non-issue and I am over the age of 30. ;)
 
Anyway, all you who want these kids to get the death penalty are screwed anyway. It's against the law to execute minors. So there! :mrgreen: I win.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Yes and those experts also fully acknowledge that the brain does not fully develop until a person is in their mid to late 20's. And yet we have everyone over the age of 18+ making what is considered adult decisions all the time.

So here is the choice you are left with going by your arguement. Since according to those same experts you talk about a persons brain does not stop developing until at the latest age of 29 then the law should reflect that and no one under the age of 30 should be allowed to be considered as an adult and as such no decision they make should be considered as adult decisions. Which could quite possibly release lots of murderers into our society with time served. Or you can accept the fact that children can, and do, make adult decisions.

I can accept either answer as that would make my criminal record a non-issue and I am over the age of 30. ;)
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Meh, I don't need to argue this case anymore. These kids aren't getting the death penalty, so I'm pleased about that.
 
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