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Should these teens be tried as adults

Should the 15 and 16 year old also be tried as adults

  • yes and throw away the key

    Votes: 72 87.8%

  • no, they deserve a second chance

    Votes: 10 12.2%
  • Total voters
    82
LaMidRighter said:
I always put it as this, due process is the legitimate process where abused rights become forfeit, meaning it must be adjuticated and guilt proven. If one abuses their freedom by committing a wrong against someone such as theft, violence, etc. then they forfeit that freedom for a period of time certain, same with life. If one uses their life to end another's without just cause it should be a minimum of loss of freedom, with forfeiture of life being an option for the especially cold blooded acts. Rape IMO is an either/or as well, I think harsh sentences at the least, but not opposed to death for forcible under many circumstances due to the exceptionally heinous nature of the act.
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Yes. All things considered, I'd tend to reserve capital punishment for pre-meditated, cold-blooded, zero-excuse, zero-mitigating-circumstances murder, or murder in the course of a "get money" felony, or murder associated with another heinous crime like torture or rape... and insist on solid physical proof (DNA, weapon with fingerprints, etc) to sentence for execution.


There are just some crimes that demand the ultimate penalty as the only way to redress the balance.
 
shrubnose said:
some of the people on this forum already have these young men convicted and are ready to execute them. I don't go along with that kind of thinking.

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Sorry, you missed the purpose of the OP - the question was should the teens be tried as adults - that is the discussion I've been having and the discussion that pretty much everyone else has been having - we weren't determining guilt or innocence, just what the sentence should be if they are found guilty, based on the evidence as presented to date. That's a perfectly reasonable discussion to have. You may not be aware of it, but often public opinion in a community can lead to authorities handling a crime in a way the community would prefer.
 
shrubnose said:
some of the people on this forum already have these young men convicted and are ready to execute them. I don't go along with that kind of thinking.

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Uh, at least one of them has already convicted them.
 
Goshin said:
Yes. All things considered, I'd tend to reserve capital punishment for pre-meditated, cold-blooded, zero-excuse, zero-mitigating-circumstances murder, or murder in the course of a "get money" felony, or murder associated with another heinous crime like torture or rape... and insist on solid physical proof (DNA, weapon with fingerprints, etc) to sentence for execution.


There are just some crimes that demand the ultimate penalty as the only way to redress the balance.
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Absolutely. I'm willing to give weight to victims' families, and I have no problem with an absolute proof standard for death penalty conviction.
 
shrubnose said:
some of the people on this forum already have these young men convicted and are ready to execute them. I don't go along with that kind of thinking.

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They shot an innocent man in the back and were caught doing evil on surveillance cameras.
The police caught up with them and found the gun used to kill the innocent man.
What would you like to see as evidence?
 
lolabird said:
They shot an innocent man in the back and were caught doing evil on surveillance cameras.
The police caught up with them and found the gun used to kill the innocent man.
What would you like to see as evidence?
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At least one has also confessed.
 
Lutherf said:
At least one has also confessed.
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They were caught on camera. Are they so stupid as to deny killing an innocent man by shooting him in the back?
Maybe they had bad childhoods--who give a mink's ass?
 
lolabird said:
They were caught on camera. Are they so stupid as to deny killing an innocent man by shooting him in the back?
Maybe they had bad childhoods--who give a mink's ass?
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You can't believe the cameras. With all the holographic equipment and the fake WTC airplanes...
 
sawyerloggingon said:
DUNCAN, Okla. (AP) — With the simplest of motives — breaking up the boredom of an Oklahoma summer — three teenagers followed an Australian collegiate baseball player who was attending school in the U.S. and killed him with a shot to the back for “the fun of it,” prosecutors said Tuesday as they charged two of the teens with murder.
As the boys appeared in an Oklahoma courtroom, a 17-year-old blurted out, “I pulled the trigger,” then wept after a judge told him that Tuesday’s hearing wasn’t the time or place to sort out the facts of the case.
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The one who pulled the trigger should not only be sentenced as an adult, he should be sentenced to death. He thinks he's some sort of Billy the Kid? Fine. He gets the Pat Garrett treatment.

I'd have to better ascertain the culpability of the other two before proffering an opinion as to what their fate should be.
 
HE should be killed as soon as possible...
 
Bodhisattva said:
You can't believe the cameras. With all the holographic equipment and the fake WTC airplanes...
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Do you suppose someone with a vendetta against the teens suffering from ennui threw a gun into their car?
Or perhaps the police planted the gun, as well as managed to create a fake scene from the surveillance tapes?
And the eyewitnesses were probably in on the hoax as well.
 
shrubnose said:


Well it certainly doesn't sound like any kind of modern system of justice to me

It sounds more like eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. Straight out of the Old Testament and the Koran.
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I'd have to agree with you on this. The Hammurabi concept of proportionality (an eye for an eye) is archaic and barbaric. The death penalty should not be employed for reasons of vengeance or to "balance the books." The death penalty should be employed for reasons of domestic defense, to protect society from any further malice by the hands of the incorrigible criminal. There is no reason whatsoever that the DP should be reserved exclusively for first degree murder, nor should first degree murder necessarily warrant a death sentence. Justice should be based upon the potential of the convict for rehabilitation, and not upon the type of crime for which he was convicted. Of course, anyone who would shoot a complete stranger to death, just for the fun of it, is obviously beyond redemption and should go to the gallows within five years of conviction. I might also recommend that his two sidekicks be required to watch as a condition of their sentence, should they be convicted as conspiring accomplices.
 
lolabird said:
1. Do you suppose someone with a vendetta against the teens suffering from ennui threw a gun into their car?
2. Or perhaps the police planted the gun, as well as managed to create a fake scene from the surveillance tapes?
3. And the eyewitnesses were probably in on the hoax as well.
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1. Perhaps... though a person with a vendetta would most likely not be suffering from ennui.
2. The police plant guns all the time. They are probably the prime suspect. A cop probably shot the Aussie and then planted the gun to frame the kids...
3. The eyewitnesses were found after the event. It was probably all staged.
 
shrubnose said:





Well it certainly doesn't sound like any kind of modern system of justice to me

It sounds more like eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
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Ummm, exactly what do you think the definition of justice is? The symbol for justice is a pair of scales. Justice is the method used to balance those scales. Iow, if you kill someone, justice would require that you pay with your own life. Equal measure.
 
lizzie said:
Ummm, exactly what do you think the definition of justice is? The symbol for justice is a pair of scales. Justice is the method used to balance those scales. Iow, if you kill someone, justice would require that you pay with your own life. Equal measure.
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Mr X said:
Being a child is dictated by age, not actions. And they haven't been convicted yet.
You're still supporting child rape.
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Nope, if I had my way, the family of the man slain would have half a day with those mopes and a full pardon from the president and governor for whatever they would do
 
Sympathy for a cold-blooded murderer is an insult to his victims.


That young man probably had parents, brothers, sisters, grandparents, nieces and nephews, cousins and friends, who loved him and have done little but weep and wail since they heard of his senseless killing. "Why??" and "Why him?" will echo in their hearts for the rest of their lives. The hole this crime left in their hearts will never really heal; it will just scar over, but never be the same.

Some things, once done, cannot be undone... nor excused.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
DUNCAN, Okla. (AP) — With the simplest of motives — breaking up the boredom of an Oklahoma summer — three teenagers followed an Australian collegiate baseball player who was attending school in the U.S. and killed him with a shot to the back for “the fun of it,” prosecutors said Tuesday as they charged two of the teens with murder.
As the boys appeared in an Oklahoma courtroom, a 17-year-old blurted out, “I pulled the trigger,” then wept after a judge told him that Tuesday’s hearing wasn’t the time or place to sort out the facts of the case.
Prosecutor Jason Hicks called the boys “thugs” as he told Stephens County Judge Jerry Herberger how Christopher Lane, 22, of Melbourne, died on a city street.
Chancey Allen Luna, 16, and James Francis Edwards, Jr., 15, of Duncan were charged with first-degree murder and, under Oklahoma law, will be tried as adults. Michael Dewayne Jones, 17, of Duncan was accused of using a vehicle in the discharge of a weapon and accessory to first-degree murder after the fact. He is considered a youthful offender but will be tried in adult court. 3 Teens Charged After Australian Player Slain « CBS Houston
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This is certainly an especially heinous crime, but I don't think minors should ever be tried as adults.

There is a reason why we don't allow minors to drive, drink alcohol, have sex or engage in certain kinds of contracts and businesses. That's because we don't think they can be held responsible just like adults, which doesn't imply in any way that they should "get away with it" or not face any consequences at all.

But it should be determined how mature they are, what kind of personality development deficits they have and if and how they can be appropriately be held responsible -- in a manner that does both justice to the victims and the maturity of the perpetrators.
 
German guy said:
This is certainly an especially heinous crime, but I don't think minors should ever be tried as adults.

There is a reason why we don't allow minors to drive, drink alcohol, have sex or engage in certain kinds of contracts and businesses. That's because we don't think they can be held responsible just like adults, which doesn't imply in any way that they should "get away with it" or not face any consequences at all.

But it should be determined how mature they are, what kind of personality development deficits they have and if and how they can be appropriately be held responsible -- in a manner that does both justice to the victims and the maturity of the perpetrators.
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Thes "kids" killed a man in cold blood and he will never get his life back, neither should they.
 
German guy said:
This is certainly an especially heinous crime, but I don't think minors should ever be tried as adults.

There is a reason why we don't allow minors to drive, drink alcohol, have sex or engage in certain kinds of contracts and businesses. That's because we don't think they can be held responsible just like adults, which doesn't imply in any way that they should "get away with it" or not face any consequences at all.

But it should be determined how mature they are, what kind of personality development deficits they have and if and how they can be appropriately be held responsible -- in a manner that does both justice to the victims and the maturity of the perpetrators.
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If we were talking about 10yo's, GG, or even 12yo's... I might be inclined to agree. But 15 and 16yo's are old enough to know better and have no excuse for murdering a man out of boredom.
 
German guy said:
This is certainly an especially heinous crime, but I don't think minors should ever be tried as adults.

There is a reason why we don't allow minors to drive, drink alcohol, have sex or engage in certain kinds of contracts and businesses. That's because we don't think they can be held responsible just like adults, which doesn't imply in any way that they should "get away with it" or not face any consequences at all.

But it should be determined how mature they are, what kind of personality development deficits they have and if and how they can be appropriately be held responsible -- in a manner that does both justice to the victims and the maturity of the perpetrators.
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Killing another person is not a trivial matter where age matters in relation to the crime committed. This was not a case of mischief or a poor decision that only hurt the participant...
 
Goshin said:
If we were talking about 10yo's, GG, or even 12yo's... I might be inclined to agree. But 15 and 16yo's are old enough to know better and have no excuse for murdering a man out of boredom.
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Sure they don't, and that's not in the slightest what I'm suggesting. I'm just saying it's possible that they are not mature enough to fully understand the consequences.
 
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