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Should these teens be tried as adults

Should the 15 and 16 year old also be tried as adults

  • yes and throw away the key

    Votes: 72 87.8%

  • no, they deserve a second chance

    Votes: 10 12.2%
  • Total voters
    82
TiredOfLife said:
Innocents are harmed? You do mean "killed" don't you?

And if there's no Right to Life during war then this Right of yours isn't much good now is it? I means it's not like it comes from God or something because all you have to do is go to war and there goes that right, right? It applies only when the conditions are right? That's not much of a right eh? And if it was, shouldn't the families of all those innocent Japanese people have a claim against those who killed them, us? Why does this right of yours have so many exceptions?
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Right, you're trying to control the conversation instead of actually making your case, we're done here.
 
Should state laws be followed, as in Texas? Are teens in RED states further "juiced" by those espousing 2nd amendment remedies?

I'm sure easy access to guns could not have been a cause. Especially on Debate Politics, where anything goes. Open-carry by all and let's get it on.

sawyerloggingon said:
DUNCAN, Okla. (AP) — With the simplest of motives — breaking up the boredom of an Oklahoma summer — three teenagers followed an Australian collegiate baseball player who was attending school in the U.S. and killed him with a shot to the back for “the fun of it,” prosecutors said Tuesday as they charged two of the teens with murder.
As the boys appeared in an Oklahoma courtroom, a 17-year-old blurted out, “I pulled the trigger,” then wept after a judge told him that Tuesday’s hearing wasn’t the time or place to sort out the facts of the case.
Prosecutor Jason Hicks called the boys “thugs” as he told Stephens County Judge Jerry Herberger how Christopher Lane, 22, of Melbourne, died on a city street.
Chancey Allen Luna, 16, and James Francis Edwards, Jr., 15, of Duncan were charged with first-degree murder and, under Oklahoma law, will be tried as adults. Michael Dewayne Jones, 17, of Duncan was accused of using a vehicle in the discharge of a weapon and accessory to first-degree murder after the fact. He is considered a youthful offender but will be tried in adult court. 3 Teens Charged After Australian Player Slain « CBS Houston
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LaMidRighter said:
Cool. My thing is, the types like the kids in this story are probably within the 20%.
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I read that there is no documented recidivism rate for minors because of the fact that their records are not accessible to the public.
 
ChrisL said:
I read that there is no documented recidivism rate for minors because of the fact that their records are not accessible to the public.
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That's possible, however I think that in the case of repeat offenders there have been some records opened, not familiar enough with it though TBH.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Fair point. Again though, level of crime committed, are we speaking of typical crimes or the especially heinous? It's kind of like serial killer versus guy who caught his wife cheating, the person predispositioned to kill for no discernable reason(like boredom) has no business ever breathing air on the outside again.
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Another article if you're interested.

Experts link teen brains' immaturity, juvenile crime - USATODAY.com

It doesn't mean adolescents can't make a rational decision or appreciate the difference between right and wrong," he said. "It does mean, particularly when confronted with stressful or emotional decisions, they are more likely to act impulsively, on instinct, without fully understanding or analyzing the consequences of their actions."

Experts say that even at ages 16 and 17, when compared to adults, juveniles on average are more:

• Impulsive.

• Aggressive.

• Emotionally volatile.

• Likely to take risks.

• Reactive to stress.

• Vulnerable to peer pressure.

• Prone to focus on and overestimate short-term payoffs and underplay longer-term consequences of what they do.

• Likely to overlook alternative courses of action.

Violence toward others also tends to peak in adolescent years, says psychiatrist Peter Ash of Emory University. It's mostly likely to start around age 16, and people who haven't committed a violent crime by age 19 only rarely start doing it later, he said.

The good news here, he said, is that a violent adolescent doesn't necessarily become a violent adult. Some two-thirds to three-quarters of violent youth grow out of it, he said. "They get more self-controlled."
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TiredOfLife said:
Innocents are harmed? And if it was, shouldn't the families of all those innocent Japanese people have a claim against those who killed them, us?
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The Japanese have no claim against anything. They started the war in the 1920's. Ask all the comfort girls across Asia. We lost enough men getting to Okinawa. Yet we continue to let Japanese revise and lie on the Military Channel and such.
 
NIMBY said:
The Japanese have no claim against anything. They started the war in the 1920's. Ask all the comfort girls across Asia. We lost enough men getting to Okinawa. Yet we continue to let Japanese revise and lie on the Military Channel and such.
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This isn't much of a Right to Life it seem, Tell me, did the men who died in the Pearl Harbor attack have that right?
 
Goshin said:
Sorry, no way. 15-16yo know murder is wrong. This wasn't in the heat of anger, or sort-kinda-by-accident, or negligence, or even in response to some insult or offense.... this was entirely malum-in-se with no mitigating circumstances. There are some things for which "they're just kids" is no longer an excuse for people past puberty. This was one.
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Then why bother drawing the line at all? What's the use of saying juvenile offenders are tried with a different set of rules if the definition can be tossed aside at will? Just try every case the same and be done with it.
 
Which is why the Japanese have no redress. Pearl Harbor is another straw man extension.
TiredOfLife said:
This isn't much of a Right to Life it seem, Tell me, did the men who died in the Pearl Harbor attack have that right?
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Grand Mal said:
Then why bother drawing the line at all? What's the use of saying juvenile offenders are tried with a different set of rules if the definition can be tossed aside at will? Just try every case the same and be done with it.
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Well we can't do that. We should try you as an adult. convict you as an adult, and then force you to eat your vegetables and do your algebra homework like any other adult.
 
NIMBY said:
Which is why the Japanese have no redress. Pearl Harbor is another straw man extension.
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Well I keep trying to find this right to life but so far all I see are dead bodies? Where is it, the right to be born so you can die in war, which very conveniently doesn't involved a right to life?
 
LaMidRighter said:
To a point yes, which is why there is a seperate juvenile level of law to an extent. Certain crimes though are considered to be of such a high level that the excuse of youth is insufficient.
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Most adults wouldn't get LWOP for this crime. They would get out in 35 years or less.
 
Right-to-life is a stretch at best in this case. It also happens to be on the fore-front of the battle between the Feds and States with 10th amendment oversteps.
TiredOfLife said:
Well I keep trying to find this right to life but so far all I see are dead bodies? Where is it, the right to be born so you can die in war, which very conveniently doesn't involved a right to life?
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TiredOfLife said:
Well we can't do that. We should try you as an adult. convict you as an adult, and then force you to eat your vegetables and do your algebra homework like any other adult.
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Insightful, as usual.
(sigh)
 
Grand Mal said:
Insightful, as usual.
(sigh)
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This thread died pages ago when it became obvious to most that we call kids and teenagers and adults different names for a reason, even when they do the same damn things.
 
ChrisL said:
Most adults wouldn't get LWOP for this crime. They would get out in 35 years or less.
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For an act of murder like this? The kids showed a level of premeditation, while they didn't plan for a specific victim they did plan to kill. In my state they'd be on death row for an adult offense.
 
It is probably a mistake to group all 3 together. The shoorter should be tried as an adult.
 
joko104 said:
It is probably a mistake to group all 3 together. The shoorter should be tried as an adult.
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I can go with that. The two that didn't do the shooting, if they had prior knowledge should have some sort of accomplice charges, but the shooter definitely deserves an adult murder charge.
 
TurtleDude said:
that they might get 60 years of prison bitch status? that seems to be the consequences they didn't take into account.

The man is dead. he did nothing to deserve it-that's where the inquiry really should start and end.
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Why are you so keen on the idea of children being raped? It's a little worrying.

They should be tried as juveniles because that's what they are, and if convicted, punished. Simple.
 
Mr X said:
Why are you so keen on the idea of children being raped? It's a little worrying.

They should be tried as juveniles because that's what they are, and if convicted, punished. Simple.
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they aren't children. they are cold blooded murderers
 
sawyerloggingon said:
DUNCAN, Okla. (AP) — With the simplest of motives — breaking up the boredom of an Oklahoma summer — three teenagers followed an Australian collegiate baseball player who was attending school in the U.S. and killed him with a shot to the back for “the fun of it,” prosecutors said Tuesday as they charged two of the teens with murder.
As the boys appeared in an Oklahoma courtroom, a 17-year-old blurted out, “I pulled the trigger,” then wept after a judge told him that Tuesday’s hearing wasn’t the time or place to sort out the facts of the case.
Prosecutor Jason Hicks called the boys “thugs” as he told Stephens County Judge Jerry Herberger how Christopher Lane, 22, of Melbourne, died on a city street.
Chancey Allen Luna, 16, and James Francis Edwards, Jr., 15, of Duncan were charged with first-degree murder and, under Oklahoma law, will be tried as adults. Michael Dewayne Jones, 17, of Duncan was accused of using a vehicle in the discharge of a weapon and accessory to first-degree murder after the fact. He is considered a youthful offender but will be tried in adult court. 3 Teens Charged After Australian Player Slain « CBS Houston
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I didn't like the choices, so I couldn't vote. There's no distinction between being tried as an adult and letting them walk free with a playful pat on the bottom. Too artificial by far.

Detention in a juvenile correction facility should suffice as punishment for that age group. Or do away forever with age altogether as being relevant to any area of judgement. Do we treat children as adults only when we're angry?

People are generally too ready to interpret revenge as justice. Emotion as moral barometer. Crime and punishment, as with abortion, is one of those issues where Cons become Libs.
 
TurtleDude said:
I say put them in with the general prison population where they can be passed around for a pack of smokes for the next 60 years of their lives.
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Child rape. Nice.

Aren't you the enlightened one.
 
TurtleDude said:
they aren't children. they are cold blooded murderers
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Being a child is dictated by age, not actions. And they haven't been convicted yet.
You're still supporting child rape.
 
TiredOfLife said:
Terrific. Justified rape by those unable to grasp justice.
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It was, after all, only someone's life that these morons ended. Of course, that was justified as that act helped to temporarily relieve the intense boredom suffered by these morons. Boys will be boys, I suppose?
 
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