View Poll Results: Should the 15 and 16 year old also be tried as adults

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  • yes and throw away the key

    89 89.00%
  • no, they deserve a second chance

    11 11.00%
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Thread: Should these teens be tried as adults

  1. #731
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Perhaps, but unless his "prior" was a serious violent crime it would not make him more culpable than the other two in this offense. He is the youngest and did the least of all three. Aside from some evidence of bragging about it being "time to take some life's" on a twitter account a few days prior.

    The oldest, Jones, was also the one "crying crocodile tears" in court that day.
    hopefully it will all come out at trial. though it wouldn't surprise me if all three didn't agree to some kind of plea bargain to avoid a life sentence.
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    if it can be shown that the crime was an intentional act of murder...then yes. although, and I have stated this before (and quoted from Black's Law dictionary) children (14 and under) are viewed differently in the eyes of the law than are juveniles (aka minors 15-17)




    their actions are more in line with those of a sociopath than they are with those of a child




    then obviously, we also disagree on the definition of "upset" as well. your opinion in no way "upsets" me, I just don't understand it.




    and yet there is no evidence of such in this case. the question then becomes....why do you assume it exists?

    like I said: you assume the best of these three punks and assume the worst of the prosecution. I wonder why.....
    I am not jumping to any conclusions, but I'm not ruling anything out either. I certainly don't assume the "best" of these three. That's YOU making assumptions because you can't understand my position or my principles about these things.

    I can just recognize the fact that they ARE kids.

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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Well that was what I was leading up to. I had already posted earlier in the thread that perhaps the 15 yo should be tried as a juvenile. But if he is being charged as an adult why charge him with murder instead of accessory to murder or some lesser charge?
    I agree that he shouldn't be tried for murder, especially if we know proof-positive who the trigger man is. I disagree about trying as a juvenile. You simply cannot try kids over a certain age as juveniles for violent crimes because justice is not done. If you have a juvenile record, once you hit 18 you're as clean as fresh snow - record expunged/sealed, instantly free, no strikes. Now if you're picking pockets, swiping someone's TV, throwing rocks through someone's windows - that's one thing. However, if you try a 17 year old for murder as a juvenile, he serves less than a year in juvenile detention, then is set free with no record. To say that it's a miscarriage of justice would be a massive understatement.

    People who can't see why teens are tried as adults for violent crimes are beyond ignorant of the law.

  4. #734
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    nothing odd about it. that hearing was not the time to make such statements. I'm quite sure that if he wants to confess to pulling the trigger at trial, he will be allowed to do so.


    I have seen cases where there were more than one person involved and all confessed and the state was unable to prove which one was telling the truth so all three were acquitted because it could not be proven beyond a reasonable doubt which one was actually the shooter.

    think about it. 3 guys in the car. the state knows that one of them pulled the trigger, but if they can't prove which one of the three did it...they can't convict any of them.
    Oh, I see that it's alright for YOU to make all kinds of assumptions about everyone, as you accuse me of doing that. Just admit it, you and I do NOT know enough information about this case to make any assumptions about anything, and we SHOULD be waiting for ALL the facts to come out instead of convicting these kids without even a trial.

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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    The prosecutors are in control. They can decide to listen or not listen to recommendations. Of course the prosecutors want to charge them as adults. That is far from surprising. I'd like to know what data they used to make this determination, or is it strictly based on the nature of the crime.
    More often than not, especially in high profile cases, the decision is based solely on political considerations.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  6. #736
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I am not jumping to any conclusions, but I'm not ruling anything out either. I certainly don't assume the "best" of these three. That's YOU making assumptions because you can't understand my position or my principles about these things.

    I can just recognize the fact that they ARE kids.
    and that's where we disagree. they are not "kids"
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    More often than not, especially in high profile cases, the decision is based solely on political considerations.
    I would imagine that the victim being an Australian factors into it.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  8. #738
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Oh, I see that it's alright for YOU to make all kinds of assumptions about everyone, as you accuse me of doing that. Just admit it, you and I do NOT know enough information about this case to make any assumptions about anything, and we SHOULD be waiting for ALL the facts to come out instead of convicting these kids without even a trial.
    I'm not making any kind of assumption. just stating what I have seen happen in the past. I never claimed that this is what is going on in this case. only that I have seen it done in the past, so it is therefore "possible".

    just as possible as these guys being successfully rehabilitated.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Why can't they be charged as juveniles as accessories to the murder? This has been done before. Why are they making such a big deal out of this PARTICULAR case? It's definitely a mystery. There have been PLENTY of juvenile murderers or accessories to murders that were much more heinous than this, and they were charged as juveniles.
    Because they all decided together to go do this, and actively pursued the victim together?

    It's not like they decided to follow him then only one pulled a gun and shot without the other's foreknowledge.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  10. #740
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    I agree that he shouldn't be tried for murder, especially if we know proof-positive who the trigger man is. I disagree about trying as a juvenile. You simply cannot try kids over a certain age as juveniles for violent crimes because justice is not done. If you have a juvenile record, once you hit 18 you're as clean as fresh snow - record expunged/sealed, instantly free, no strikes. Now if you're picking pockets, swiping someone's TV, throwing rocks through someone's windows - that's one thing. However, if you try a 17 year old for murder as a juvenile, he serves less than a year in juvenile detention, then is set free with no record. To say that it's a miscarriage of justice would be a massive understatement.

    People who can't see why teens are tried as adults for violent crimes are beyond ignorant of the law.
    especially those who claim that teens should NEVER be tried as adults.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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