View Poll Results: Should the 15 and 16 year old also be tried as adults

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  • yes and throw away the key

    89 89.00%
  • no, they deserve a second chance

    11 11.00%
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Thread: Should these teens be tried as adults

  1. #681
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Is that how you feel about juveniles too, because evidence contradicts that, as I've posted numerous times now. Since you guys apparently don't like to look at links, I've taken the liberty to quote just some relevant sections. It would be much better to read the entire thing, but whatever. Here is just ONE reason why teens should not be prosecuted as adults.

    Brain Connection » Powered by Posit Science - Your Brain Health Headquarters
    The researchers found that when processing emotions, adults have greater activity in their frontal lobes than do teenagers. Adults also have lower activity in their amygdala than teenagers. In fact, as teenagers age into adulthood, the overall focus of brain activity seems to shift from the amygdala to the frontal lobes.

    The frontal lobes of the brain have been implicated in behavioral inhibition, the ability to control emotions and impulses. The frontal lobes are also thought to be the place where decisions about right and wrong, as well as cause-effect relationships are processed. In contrast, the amygdala is part of the limbic system of the brain and is involved in instinctive “gut” reactions, including “fight or flight” responses. Lower activity in the frontal lobe could lead to poor control over behavior and emotions, while an overactive amygdala may be associated with high levels of emotional arousal and reactionary decision-making.

    The results from the McLean study suggest that while adults can to use rational decision making processes when facing emotional decisions, adolescent brains are simply not yet equipped to think through things in the same way. For example, when deciding whether to ride in a car driven by a drunk friend, an adult can usually put aside her desire to conform and is more likely to make the rational decision against drunk driving. However, a teenager’s immature frontal lobes may not be capable of such a coolly rational approach, and the emotional feelings of friendship may be likely to win the battle. As Dr. Yurgelun-Todd told U.S. News, “Good judgment is learned, but you can’t learn it if you don’t have the necessary hardware.”
    Jay Giedd and his colleagues at the National Institutes of Mental Health (NIMH) have reached similar conclusions using a brain imaging technique that looks at brain structure rather than activity. Giedd’s results suggest that development in the frontal lobe continues throughout adolescence and well into the early twenties. The researchers found that the number of neurons in the frontal lobe continued to increase throughout childhood until an average age of 12.1 years for men and 10.2 years for women. Scientists previously thought that gray matter production and development only occurred during the first 18 months of life. The fact changes are still occurring in the brain during adolescence provides some evidence against some popular theories that suggest that our brains are hardwired during early childhood. These brain imaging studies instead suggest that adolescence may provide a sort of “second chance” to refine behavioral control and rational decision making.

    These studies may offer some hope to teenagers suffering from behavioral or emotional problems. The fact that the decision making centers of the brain continue to develop well into the early twenties could mean that troubled teenagers still have the time as well as the physiology to learn how to control their impulsive behaviors.
    *sigh* My comment was generic, but fine...

    Anyway, is it not possible that bad behavior and/or judgment is learned as well? Where do all these adults with poor behavior and judgment come from? Is their bad behavior/judgment learned... reinforced... at a young age (as you are seemingly wont to do)? Or, are we simply on a quest for what we want to hear and one-sided excuses?
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
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  2. #682
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    *sigh* My comment was generic, but fine...

    Anyway, is it not possible that bad behavior and/or judgment is learned as well? Where do all these adults with poor behavior and judgment come from? Is their bad behavior/judgment learned... reinforced... at a young age (as you are seemingly wont to do)? Or, are we simply on a quest for what we want to hear and one-sided excuses?
    Of course that's possible. That's covered in one of my links as well. These are also things that can apparently be "unlearned" when it comes to teens because their minds are still pliable.

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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    This is the most annoying part of DP. When people continue to ask questions of you which you've already addressed multiple times and backed with links, etc. They refuse to read but keep asking questions which are covered in the links.

  4. #684
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    What are you talking about? The question in the OP is should 15 and 16-year-olds be treated as adults in the justice system.

    Okay, now that I reread the title, maybe the OP is referring to these specific 15 and 16 year olds, but regardless nobody knows if they could be rehabilitated or not. You and others here are certainly not experts, and I would defer to what they have to say about these three instead of making all decisions based on some spotty news articles.
    I made it quite clear what I was talking about, as did OscarB63: the "alleged" killers of Chris Lane. I doubt that any experts have had time to express an educated opinion as to their ability to be rehabilitated, yet you asserted that was so.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I made it quite clear what I was talking about, as did OscarB63: the "alleged" killers of Chris Lane. I doubt that any experts have had time to express an educated opinion as to their ability to be rehabilitated, yet you asserted that was so.
    I did no such thing. I asserted that teens are capable of being rehabilitated, that does not exclude or include these three, as I could not say such things as I've never spoken to them and I'm NOT a psychiatrist.

    Good LORD! If anything, it's a lot of others who are asserting they CANNOT be rehabilitated.

  6. #686
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I'm thinking it also has a lot to do with the fact that the police can't be everywhere at once though.
    that has more to do with why murders can be committed, the cops can't be everywhere to prevent them, and less to do with why the murderer is never caught. most murderers are caught because they either kill someone they know, so there is a connection or they hang around the area where the crime was committed or they kill more than one person and establish a pattern.

    and many murders are committed during the act of another crime such as rape (where the killer leaves behind DNA or fingerprint evidence), robbery (where the killer is caught because they use the victims credit cards etc)

    Jeff dahlmer killed at least 17 people over the course of 13 years before he was finally caught when one of his intended victims managed to escape and lead the police back to Dahlmer's apartment.

    Andrei Chikatilo murdered 53 people over the course of 12 years before he was caught

    Denis Rader (BTK killer) murdered at least 10 people over the course of 17 years and wasn't caught until 14 years after his last known murder.
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Slow down on the weasling out attempt by now adding the word all. Your response, that I replied with quote to, was to this specific statement made by OscarB63:



    To which you said that experts disagree, thus implying, quite clearly, that those involved in this case are good candidates for rehabilitation, not all not most and not some juveniles but only those juveniles involved in this case.

    Now you resort to generalizations about juveniles - which is not the point being made by myself or OscarB63.

    I will agree that the OP used both all and those in this case interchangably in the poll's title and lead post, but that aside, my comment addressed a specific claim that you made and not the juvenile justice system in general. This case, the execution of Chris Lane, is an exception and not the rule, thus it made the news.
    exactly. which is why the decision to try minors as adults is made on a case by case basis.
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  8. #688
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I did no such thing. I asserted that teens are capable of being rehabilitated, that does not exclude or include these three, as I could not say such things as I've never spoken to them and I'm NOT a psychiatrist.

    Good LORD! If anything, it's a lot of others who are asserting they CANNOT be rehabilitated.
    Teens does not include or exclude based only on age?

    I am done trying to "reason" with you on this issue.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    exactly. which is why the decision to try minors as adults is made on a case by case basis.
    And that takes into account multiple factors, not what people read in news articles, but people who actually examine the kids and are qualified to make such judgments without letting emotion cloud their judgments.

  10. #690
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I did no such thing. I asserted that teens are capable of being rehabilitated, that does not exclude or include these three, as I could not say such things as I've never spoken to them and I'm NOT a psychiatrist.

    Good LORD! If anything, it's a lot of others who are asserting they CANNOT be rehabilitated.
    some cannot. and given the circumstances surrounding the crime they committed and the manner in which it was carried out, it would appear that these 3 are poor candidates for rehabilitation through the juvenile system. the one who was already on juvie probation in particular.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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