View Poll Results: Should the 15 and 16 year old also be tried as adults

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  • yes and throw away the key

    89 89.00%
  • no, they deserve a second chance

    11 11.00%
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Thread: Should these teens be tried as adults

  1. #671
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    That's always been my suspicion, as well.
    I read an article once that put forth the idea that many of these unsolved murders are the work of serial killers that haven't been caught yet.

    I have thought about it as a mental exercise. If I had no friends or family to keep me rooted in any one place, I could kill a young white guy in the city I live now with a knife. move to Nashville, wait a week or so and then beat a black lady to death with a pipe, move on up to cleveland and shoot an old hispanic dude. travel over to NYC and strangle an asian teenager. head to the west coast and break a white lady's neck. you could hitch hike or hop a train and travel all over the country, taking odds jobs to make $$$. as long as you never killed more than one person in an area and if you varied your victim and method of killing, there would be very little chance of the authorities making any connection between the murders. about the only way you would get caught is if you were caught in the act.
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  2. #672
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Whoever claimed that ALL juveniles can be rehabilitated. I said that they are the ones most worthy of rehabilitation and should not ever be charged as adults because they are NOT adults, even if they suffer from a mental illness. In fact, charging them as adults if they DO suffer from a mental illness is even more bogus.
    and, in this particular case, I would argue that these particular teenagers don't meet any of the criteria you have posted/linked that would give any indication that they have a decent chance at rehabilitation.
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    I read an article once that put forth the idea that many of these unsolved murders are the work of serial killers that haven't been caught yet.

    I have thought about it as a mental exercise. If I had no friends or family to keep me rooted in any one place, I could kill a young white guy in the city I live now with a knife. move to Nashville, wait a week or so and then beat a black lady to death with a pipe, move on up to cleveland and shoot an old hispanic dude. travel over to NYC and strangle an asian teenager. head to the west coast and break a white lady's neck. you could hitch hike or hop a train and travel all over the country, taking odds jobs to make $$$. as long as you never killed more than one person in an area and if you varied your victim and method of killing, there would be very little chance of the authorities making any connection between the murders. about the only way you would get caught is if you were caught in the act.
    That's really creepy dude. Seems like you've actually given this a lot of thought.

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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    and, in this particular case, I would argue that these particular teenagers don't meet any of the criteria you have posted/linked that would give any indication that they have a decent chance at rehabilitation.
    Are you a psychologist? Have you interviewed or spoken to these kids? What do you know about their mental health, their upbringings, etc?

  5. #675
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    That's really creepy dude. Seems like you've actually given this a lot of thought.
    there are many things that I have given lots of thought. like I said, it is a mental exercise. I saw an article talking about all the unsolved murders in the country and how many of them might be the work of serial killers and it made me wonder how a person might be able to be a serial killer and not get caught.
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    there are many things that I have given lots of thought. like I said, it is a mental exercise. I saw an article talking about all the unsolved murders in the country and how many of them might be the work of serial killers and it made me wonder how a person might be able to be a serial killer and not get caught.
    I'm thinking it also has a lot to do with the fact that the police can't be everywhere at once though.

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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Are you a psychologist? Have you interviewed or spoken to these kids? What do you know about their mental health, their upbringings, etc?
    I know that at least two of them come from broken homes with no strong family support: strike one

    I know that at least one of them has already been through the juvie system and it failed: strike two

    the very nature and details of this crime reveals cold calculated actions and not a lack of judgement or recklessness: strike three
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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  8. #678
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Whoever claimed that ALL juveniles can be rehabilitated. I said that they are the ones most worthy of rehabilitation and should not ever be charged as adults because they are NOT adults, even if they suffer from a mental illness. In fact, charging them as adults if they DO suffer from a mental illness is even more bogus.
    Slow down on the weasling out attempt by now adding the word all. Your response, that I replied with quote to, was to this specific statement made by OscarB63:

    people who commit crimes like this are highly unlikely to be rehabilitated.
    To which you said that experts disagree, thus implying, quite clearly, that those involved in this case are good candidates for rehabilitation, not all not most and not some juveniles but only those juveniles involved in this case.

    Now you resort to generalizations about juveniles - which is not the point being made by myself or OscarB63.

    I will agree that the OP used both all and those in this case interchangably in the poll's title and lead post, but that aside, my comment addressed a specific claim that you made and not the juvenile justice system in general. This case, the execution of Chris Lane, is an exception and not the rule, thus it made the news.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  9. #679
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    I know that at least two of them come from broken homes with no strong family support: strike one

    I know that at least one of them has already been through the juvie system and it failed: strike two

    the very nature and details of this crime reveals cold calculated actions and not a lack of judgement or recklessness: strike three
    If you'd read my links, you would realize that the first two things on your little list are things that experts say CAN be fixed. Just because he went through the juvenile system does not necessarily mean he got the proper treatment. That's another problem with our system. Different kids and different problems need to be treated differently. That is why psychiatric assessments are important too. Basically the choices are to kill them, lock them up and forget about them with adults offenders or try to rehabilitate them. Even if they have to a long stint behind bars, rehabilitation would still be helpful. Most people DO eventually get out of jail, even adults who have committed even worse crimes, and these three are no exception.

    http://drum.lib.umd.edu/bitstream/19...e,%20Kelie.pdf

    CONCLUSION 1:
    A main conclusion from this inquiry is that there has to be a separation of
    treatment for first time offenders and chronic offenders (Lober, Farrington, Petechuk,
    2003). Many times the same rehabilitation methods are used for both groups. This is
    ok but that the fact is that chronic offenders tend to commit more crimes and more
    serious crimes. So the duration of treatment and even specific methods used have to
    be purposeful for chronic offenders.

    CONCLUSION 2:
    Rehabilitation and the success rate of the juvenile delinquent is contingent
    upon everyone involved in the rehabilitation process willing to make the changes
    and sacrifices necessary to achieve the goal of a rehabilitated juvenile re- entering
    society as healthy citizen (Mincey et al ,2008). This plays a major role in the success
    or failure of juvenile delinquents

  10. #680
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Slow down on the weasling out attempt by now adding the word all. Your response, that I replied with quote to, was to this specific statement made by OscarB63:



    To which you said that experts disagree, thus implying, quite clearly, that those involved in this case are good candidates for rehabilitation, not all not most and not some juveniles but only those juveniles involved in this case.

    Now you resort to generalizations about juveniles in general - which is not the point being made by myself or OscarB63.

    I will agree that the OP used both all and those in this case interchangably in the poll's title and lead post, but that aside, my comment addressed a specific claim that you made and not the juvenile justice system in general. This case, the execution of Chris Lane, is an exception and not the rule, thus it made the news.
    What are you talking about? The question in the OP is should 15 and 16-year-olds be treated as adults in the justice system.

    Okay, now that I reread the title, maybe the OP is referring to these specific 15 and 16 year olds, but regardless nobody knows if they could be rehabilitated or not. You and others here are certainly not experts, and I would defer to what they have to say about these three instead of making all decisions based on some spotty news articles.

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