View Poll Results: Should the 15 and 16 year old also be tried as adults

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  • yes and throw away the key

    89 89.00%
  • no, they deserve a second chance

    11 11.00%
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Thread: Should these teens be tried as adults

  1. #611
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    in some cases, those who spawned those "children" ought to be in prison as well
    That might be true.

  2. #612
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I don't want to give them a pass. I just don't want them to be killed. The death penalty is passe. It's too expensive. It takes too long. It's bad to execute an innocent individual, and we have alternatives.
    those are sound points. the expense comes from the ridiculous appeals process-in ohio a guy was clearly guilty of multiple murders three state courts found so, so he files a federal appeal. ONE anti DP judge whined. The 6th Circuit overturned that judge, the USSC sustained the DP but the same individual judge allowed another technicality. By the time they fried the guy over 35 different judges had sustained his guilt but due to one ANTI DP judge it took 22 years to fry the SOB-a guy they caught at the murder scene holding the murder weapon and one of his victims had the shooter's skin and blood on her hands after she scratched him as he killed her



  3. #613
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    There would be no initially assigned sentence. You would be incarcerated until you were deemed safe to interact with the general public again. No minimum or maximum. In a practical sense there would be a minimum since it would take a certain amount of time to analyze someone and determine whether they were safe to release or not. Releases would probably be conditional in a lot of cases too. For example someone with a mental health issue might have to prove they were being treated and taking their meds to stay out of prison.



    That's ridiculous. We don't do that to doctors, and they hold people's lives in their hands every day too. All that would get you is no one willing to do the job.

    If it was negligence that led to the decision to let the person go, then I agree that the person should be punished. But to expect people to be perfect is ridiculous.
    If they have no skin in the game then they would simply bow to pressure to reduce sentences and thus costs. Perhaps if their recidvism record was 33% or less then they would get paid $10K extra for every 1% under that, otherwise they pay the state $10K for every 1% over that.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  4. #614
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    If they have no skin in the game then they would simply bow to pressure to reduce sentences and thus costs. Perhaps if their recidvism record was 33% or less then they would get paid $10K extra for every 1% under that, otherwise they pay the state $10K for every 1% over that.
    I'm not sure why it wouldn't be sufficient to review their performance the same as any other worker in any other industry. If they're doing a crappy job, they lose their job, just like anyone else would.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  5. #615
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Yes I certainly believe they should be tried as adults. But I am curious to their backgrounds because there is something going on in our society that is contributing to the lack of respect for life being acted out in young males from teens to their early twenties. Were these males from single mother homes? Did they have a positive male role model in their lives? Did they have a record of other criminal behavior? Were they ever put on drugs such as Ritalin to control unfavorable behavior? Were they accustomed to getting high on a regular basis to escape reality? Something is going on and we damn well need to find out why the increase in such crimes.

  6. #616
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    those are sound points. the expense comes from the ridiculous appeals process-in ohio a guy was clearly guilty of multiple murders three state courts found so, so he files a federal appeal. ONE anti DP judge whined. The 6th Circuit overturned that judge, the USSC sustained the DP but the same individual judge allowed another technicality. By the time they fried the guy over 35 different judges had sustained his guilt but due to one ANTI DP judge it took 22 years to fry the SOB-a guy they caught at the murder scene holding the murder weapon and one of his victims had the shooter's skin and blood on her hands after she scratched him as he killed her
    The appeals process helps protect innocent people from being executed though. It protects us from them so to speak. I don't anything about the case you refer to, but I heard on average is between 12 and 15 years and differs from state to state.

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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Nope, I already acknowledged that to be a problem with the juvenile system and agreed with another poster about perhaps trying them as adults (when it's a murder), but making adjustments for them as juveniles. It's a complicated problem. I just think 15 years old is too young to be charged as an adult.
    But if the end result is the same what difference does it make?

  8. #618
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    The appeals process helps protect innocent people from being executed though. It protects us from them so to speak. I don't anything about the case you refer to, but I heard on average is between 12 and 15 years and differs from state to state.
    I have always been ambivalent about the DP due to having had almost 30 years of trying jury cases and I have seen some really bad screw ups. But some people really deserve things worth than a clean death

    for example, those two assholes in CT who raped a woman and her daughters and then burned the girls to death after killing the mother. NOthing the spanish inquisition did would be too cruel for those scumbags. but I don't think the state should bring back the pear or the wheel but if the father of a slain wife and two daughters wanted to break the mopes on the rack, I sure wouldn't lose any sleep over it



  9. #619
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    But if the end result is the same what difference does it make?
    Imagine being a 15-year-old in a prison full of adult men, mostly predators?

  10. #620
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    I'm not sure why it wouldn't be sufficient to review their performance the same as any other worker in any other industry. If they're doing a crappy job, they lose their job, just like anyone else would.
    Yep. We see gov't "expert" employees fired for bad performance all the time.

    Care to link to the last 10 DOJ officials fired for making bad decisions. A quick search turned up one such case in 2007.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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