View Poll Results: Should the 15 and 16 year old also be tried as adults

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  • yes and throw away the key

    89 89.00%
  • no, they deserve a second chance

    11 11.00%
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Thread: Should these teens be tried as adults

  1. #401
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Yes, I accept your apology, but you really should practice on leaving the personal stuff out of your debate. It makes you look weak, seriously.



    Interesting information here from your link:







    Funny, I didn't note that in the link provided. Care to quote that section for me?
    Firstly, I wasn't the one who introduced the personal into the debate - THAT WAS YOU, by bringing reference to having a 17 year old son - I didn't create it out of thin air - so if anyone should refrain from looking weak by bringing in the personal, that would be you - try to practice what you preach.

    Secondly, yes, Canadians are fed up with our justice system and the lack of real penalties or penalties that mean something. We have life sentences, but no life sentence exists without the possibility of parole - even convicted serial killers have had parole hearings and some murderers have been released on parole after serving what many people consider only a short period of time. As an example, we've had a man who decapitated another man on a Greyhound bus - he was found not guilty by reason of insanity and yet just a few short years later he is out in the public on day passes and will perhaps be released for longer periods soon. We've also had a doctor who killed his two toddlers in revenge against his wife and he was also found not guilty by reason of insanity and he was fully released a few short years later. And there are untold numbers of criminals out on bail on gun charges who murder while on bail or commit other crimes with a weapon. People here are fed up.

    Finally, the link I provided was not related to the Youth Criminal Justice Act, just the issue of capital punishment. This act was revised and adopted in 2012 so I'm not sure if there is polling related to it and I won't bother digging up polls on the previous acts since they're no longer relevant.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  2. #402
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Ever had someone you love murdered? It can change your mind.





    That's probably why we leave administering justice up to the government and lock up vigilantes, eh?

  3. #403
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post




    Well it looks like you got one thing right.

    I'll just add that I am not interested in trying to judge those young men, I'll leave that to the Oklahoma justice system.
    Kind of a waste of time to participate in a website devoted to the sharing of opinion and the exchange of views, don't you think, when you criticize people for expressing an opinion - not just disagreeing with the opinion but disagreeing with people actually voicing an opinion - and your not wanting to express any opinion yourself.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  4. #404
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Firstly, I wasn't the one who introduced the personal into the debate - THAT WAS YOU, by bringing reference to having a 17 year old son - I didn't create it out of thin air - so if anyone should refrain from looking weak by bringing in the personal, that would be you - try to practice what you preach.
    By personal, I mean you personally attacking my child by insinuating that he is some psychopath. Get a grip on yourself.

    Secondly, yes, Canadians are fed up with our justice system and the lack of real penalties or penalties that mean something. We have life sentences, but no life sentence exists without the possibility of parole - even convicted serial killers have had parole hearings and some murderers have been released on parole after serving what many people consider only a short period of time. As an example, we've had a man who decapitated another man on a Greyhound bus - he was found not guilty by reason of insanity and yet just a few short years later he is out in the public on day passes and will perhaps be released for longer periods soon. We've also had a doctor who killed his two toddlers in revenge against his wife and he was also found not guilty by reason of insanity and he was fully released a few short years later. And there are untold numbers of criminals out on bail on gun charges who murder while on bail or commit other crimes with a weapon. People here are fed up.
    I read the link, and it said that when LWOP was introduced, the statistics changed. What you state above does not change that fact gleaned from your own link.

    Finally, the link I provided was not related to the Youth Criminal Justice Act, just the issue of capital punishment. This act was revised and adopted in 2012 so I'm not sure if there is polling related to it and I won't bother digging up polls on the previous acts since they're no longer relevant.
    Exactly, it does not discuss the juvenile system at all. You can't just make claims, you have to back them with proof. Well, I guess you can just throw claims out there without anything to back them but it's certainly not a very good tactic to make your point.

    Anyhow, when and if you produce a link or something new about this particular case, then feel free to quote me, but I think I've done just about everything I can to try to convince people that killing people who are already in custody is useless.

  5. #405
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I completely understand that it would make even more emotional about it. Emotion should probably not be included when applying the law.

    And it wasn't. Juries found the murderers of my brother guilty, and sentenced them to death in accordance with the law of my state... which law was passed by the elected legislature.


    What is justice? Justice is making the punishment fit the crime. Take a life with no excuse or valid reason? Lose your own. That is justice.

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  6. #406
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post




    That's probably why we leave administering justice up to the government and lock up vigilantes, eh?

    See my reply to ChrisL. The murderers in question were tried by a judge, found guilty by jury, sentenced to die by jury, all according to my State's laws made by elected legislators... how you get vigiliantes out of that is beyond me.

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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    And it wasn't. Juries found the murderers of my brother guilty, and sentenced them to death in accordance with the law of my state... which law was passed by the elected legislature.


    What is justice? Justice is making the punishment fit the crime. Take a life with no excuse or valid reason? Lose your own. That is justice.
    That is totally your opinion and nothing more.

  8. #408
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    That is totally your opinion and nothing more.


    And the law of the land in many, if not most, of our democratically governed States.


    A fundamental point of Western jurisprudence is "as much as possible, make the victim whole." A murder victim cannot be made whole. Thus the only thing left is "let the punishment fit the crime."


    Take a life unjustifiably, lose a life, is a balancing of the equation in a way no other outcome can achieve.

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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    And the law of the land in many, if not most, of our democratically governed States.
    I'm pretty sure there are at least 19 states that don't have a death penalty.

  10. #410
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I'm pretty sure there are at least 19 states that don't have a death penalty.

    Which would leave 31 that do.... so I'd say it is more than just MY opinion.

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