View Poll Results: Should the 15 and 16 year old also be tried as adults

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  • yes and throw away the key

    89 89.00%
  • no, they deserve a second chance

    11 11.00%
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Thread: Should these teens be tried as adults

  1. #351
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Well, my condolences if you have a 17 yr old son and you can understand how he might one day just up and think, gee, let's execute some stranger today for something to do.
    Well now, that's a pretty rude and uncalled for assumption. I meant that I understand that kids that age ARE kids and that the profiles about their impulsivity, etc. fits.

    As for leniency, yes indeed you are suggesting leniency if you don't want them to be subject to the death penalty or put in an adult correctional facility as punishment for executing another young man.
    I am against the death penalty. No children don't belong in adult correctional facilities.

    So again I'll ask, anyone who wants to answer, what is your suggested "severe" punishment or "non-lenient" punishment for a 15, 16, 17 year old who executes another human being?
    IF the child is deemed a danger to society by a psychiatrist or other licensed mental health professional, I would say that life in prison is a fitting punishment, but while a child should be separated from adults. There is nothing lenient about that, and you don't have the blood of children and possibly innocent people (speaking in general terms here - NOT about this particular case so don't flip your lid) on our hands as a country. Do they execute children up there in Canada BTW?

  2. #352
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    And children as young as 7 could and were given the death penalty before. And experts claim an 80% success rate with rehabilitation. So I guess you'll have to call them and argue that you know and all the people here know better than the experts about recidivism and rehabilitation as it pertains to juveniles.
    Here's what I'll give you, as it relates to rehabilitation. There is evidence that people who commit crimes of passion, such as murdering a spouse they caught cheating on them or murdering their children through post-partem depression or other mental illness, may over time work through their problems and not be a menace to society going forward. These are people who's anger/trouble was focussed and not sociopathic or pyschopathic. The difference you have here is three young men who considered execution to be a form of fun, something to pass the time, a diversion from boredom. That's not something that is easily remedied or something that through therapy can be treated. That is a severe mental defect.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  3. #353
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    IF the child is deemed a danger to society...
    They deemed themselves to be a danger to society when they murdered a man in cold blood, without reason or provocation.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  4. #354
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    3 teenagers, well above the age where "I didn't know any better" is even remotely an excuse, implicate themselves in a premeditated execution of a random stranger. at least one of them tells authorities they did it "for the fun of it" and you insist they be treated like "children". you can keep those "principles"
    I don't really care if you like my opinions or "principles" or not. I never said you had to like or agree with them, but they are mine and I'll keep them. Just saying.

  5. #355
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Irrelevant, you are jumping to conclusions and convicting these kids before they have had a trial and all the evidence against them has come out. That is NOT how our system works.
    Gosh Chris, you give "Stand Your Ground" a different perspective. You've been taking on all comers to defend your position since yesterday. I truly admire what seems to be sincere fortitude.
    I agree with your statement above. The original question concerns their crime status as adults or children; I will re-issue my response...
    Based upon the alleged admissions of the alleged perpetrators that they did knowingly plan, follow through, and execute with malice and forethought the heinous crime of murder upon an innocent soul the young men should stand trial as adults and if convicted receive full force and effect of the most severe punishment available in accordance with the laws of the State of Oklahoma.
    I do not agree, in this case, that rehabilitation is an option.
    Hang in the --- oops ... how about .. Keep on Truckin' Chris

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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Here's what I'll give you, as it relates to rehabilitation. There is evidence that people who commit crimes of passion, such as murdering a spouse they caught cheating on them or murdering their children through post-partem depression or other mental illness, may over time work through their problems and not be a menace to society going forward. These are people who's anger/trouble was focussed and not sociopathic or pyschopathic. The difference you have here is three young men who considered execution to be a form of fun, something to pass the time, a diversion from boredom. That's not something that is easily remedied or something that through therapy can be treated. That is a severe mental defect.
    You don't know anything about this case or the people involved except for some incomplete data. Your diagnosis is also not valid. Frigging armchair psychiatrists, medical professionals and lawyers are a hoot.

  7. #357
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    In this case, where three youths went on a "joy killing" of a man who did nothing to them, execution is a fitting punishment for the one who pulled the trigger. Life sentences for the other two, no parole.
    I agree, but you see, those are adult sentences and the ones on life sentences would have to be housed somewhere and the ones who claim they shouldn't be tried as adults believe they should also not be housed in adult correctional facilities. So while your response is imminently reasonable, it doesn't fit the murders as children sentencing criteria.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  8. #358
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    3 teenagers, well above the age where "I didn't know any better" is even remotely an excuse, implicate themselves in a premeditated execution of a random stranger. at least one of them tells authorities they did it "for the fun of it" and you insist they be treated like "children".
    you can keep those "principles"



    Hey, you can keep your "principles", too, because we don't want them.

    Gather them all up, Put 'em in a box and stick 'em up in your attic.




    "Better days are coming." But not for today's out of touch, running out of time, GOP.

  9. #359
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Well now, that's a pretty rude and uncalled for assumption. I meant that I understand that kids that age ARE kids and that the profiles about their impulsivity, etc. fits.



    I am against the death penalty. No children don't belong in adult correctional facilities.



    IF the child is deemed a danger to society by a psychiatrist or other licensed mental health professional, I would say that life in prison is a fitting punishment, but while a child should be separated from adults. There is nothing lenient about that, and you don't have the blood of children and possibly innocent people (speaking in general terms here - NOT about this particular case so don't flip your lid) on our hands as a country. Do they execute children up there in Canada BTW?
    My apologies for referring back to your son so flippantly - I was trying to make a point against your comment and mine was uncalled for and I uncategorically apologize for it.

    No, we don't have the death penalty here - not that the majority of the electorate don't favor reinstating the death penalty - recent polling shows 63% of Canadians favor reinstatement - our politicians, however, are opposed.

    Yahoo! News Canada - Latest News & Headlines

    As for children, the majority of Canadians are outraged at the leniency with which young adults are treated under our Young Offenders Act and want it abolished and most if not all teenaged youth tried as adults particularly when they commit heinous crimes like murder.
    Last edited by CanadaJohn; 08-21-13 at 04:05 PM.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  10. #360
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I agree, but you see, those are adult sentences and the ones on life sentences would have to be housed somewhere and the ones who claim they shouldn't be tried as adults believe they should also not be housed in adult correctional facilities. So while your response is imminently reasonable, it doesn't fit the murders as children sentencing criteria.
    They committed a heinous crime, and are old enough to know what they did was wrong. They reportedly admitted that they knew their actions were wrong, that should be enough to put them on trial as adults.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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