View Poll Results: Should the 15 and 16 year old also be tried as adults

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  • yes and throw away the key

    89 89.00%
  • no, they deserve a second chance

    11 11.00%
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Thread: Should these teens be tried as adults

  1. #321
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    DUNCAN, Okla. (AP) — With the simplest of motives — breaking up the boredom of an Oklahoma summer — three teenagers followed an Australian collegiate baseball player who was attending school in the U.S. and killed him with a shot to the back for “the fun of it,” prosecutors said Tuesday as they charged two of the teens with murder.
    As the boys appeared in an Oklahoma courtroom, a 17-year-old blurted out, “I pulled the trigger,” then wept after a judge told him that Tuesday’s hearing wasn’t the time or place to sort out the facts of the case.
    Prosecutor Jason Hicks called the boys “thugs” as he told Stephens County Judge Jerry Herberger how Christopher Lane, 22, of Melbourne, died on a city street.
    Chancey Allen Luna, 16, and James Francis Edwards, Jr., 15, of Duncan were charged with first-degree murder and, under Oklahoma law, will be tried as adults. Michael Dewayne Jones, 17, of Duncan was accused of using a vehicle in the discharge of a weapon and accessory to first-degree murder after the fact. He is considered a youthful offender but will be tried in adult court. 3 Teens Charged After Australian Player Slain « CBS Houston





    How these three young men will be tried will be decided in Oklahoma.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nationa...9Us1DltFFWCGQM
    Last edited by shrubnose; 08-21-13 at 02:47 PM.

  2. #322
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    AGAIN, that is what the PROSECUTION claims happened. We haven't heard from the defense yet. These kids have NOT had a trial yet. WTH is wrong with you people? You want to assume guilt and assume that you know all of the effing details when it's obvious that you DO NOT. Why? So that you can throw some kids into an adult correctional facility? For what purpose?
    Problem is, the kids are on record as doing it because "they were bored". It doesn't get any more solid than a confession.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Yup. And guess what?

    America has a terrible track record of even attempting rehabilitation. Probably the worst in the developed world.

    Countries that do rehabilitate have a tiny fraction of our recidivism rate. That is why I suggested we start doing it.
    To be fair, we have tons of rehabilitative plans in jails and prisons and still have a high recidivism rate. Inmates are given the opportunity to join G.E.D. programs, study programs, if they are trustees they are given the opportunity to join work release programs, and the "halfway house" system. These are all designed to steer people away from a in and out prison lifestyle, yet we still have a high recidivism. I don't have a lot of good answers for that but it is the reality.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  4. #324
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Frankly, you can read just about any article on the murder, and see what they themselves had to say.
    As you can clearly see from the OP article, it certainly does not state anything that the boys' said and apparently they weren't allowed to say their piece yet. Also, if you know anything about the interrogation process, there have been MANY cases where adults have cracked under the pressure and admitted to murders or what not just to make it stop. Obviously, children and teens could easily crack under that same stress and pressure.

    All I'm saying is that before you jump to conclusions and assume you know everything about this case and these boys, why not wait until more facts come out? Is that unreasonable?

    With the simplest of motives — breaking up the boredom of an Oklahoma summer — three teenagers followed an Australian collegiate baseball player who was attending school in the U.S. and killed him with a shot to the back for “the fun of it,” prosecutors said Tuesday as they charged two of the teens with murder.

    As the boys appeared in an Oklahoma courtroom, a 17-year-old blurted out, “I pulled the trigger,” then wept after a judge told him that Tuesday’s hearing wasn’t the time or place to sort out the facts of the case.

    Prosecutor Jason Hicks called the boys “thugs” as he told Stephens County Judge Jerry Herberger how Christopher Lane, 22, of Melbourne, died on a city street.

  5. #325
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    I'd like to see the studies that back up your "expert's" claim. I would be very surprised to see proof of an 80% success rate with rehabilitating murderers
    What?? I've already quoted it MULTIPLE times and posted the links. It didn't apply to just murderers but to the rehabilitative process in general, and it stated it includes those juveniles convicted of "violent" crimes. Of course it doesn't specify the actual crimes because, again, these are sealed juvenile records.

  6. #326
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    well...according to her, we only have the word of the prosecution that these punks said anything. I just don't get why she is bending over backwards to excuse this crap and wants these killers treated like children
    I guarantee the police already have a signed confession if they are making that statement in public, there is no way they will risk a mistrial by "creating" evidence that they can't present in court.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  7. #327
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I guarantee the police already have a signed confession if they are making that statement in public, there is no way they will risk a mistrial by "creating" evidence that they can't present in court.
    or setting themselves up for a libel/slander lawsuit. if they are reporting the kid said it...you can bet your ass the kid said it.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Problem is, the kids are on record as doing it because "they were bored". It doesn't get any more solid than a confession.
    That's the case presented by the prosecution, and it most CERTAINLY gets more solid than a confession.

    http://fds.oup.com/www.oup.com/pdf/13/9780199600502.pdf

    Confessions constitute an important exception to the hearsay rule. They are attractive to police officers, for obvious reasons, and can impress juries. However, experience also teaches that confessions can prove unreliable and, regrettably, even lead to miscarriages of justice. The source of a confession’s unreliability may lie in the methods used to extract it: if obtained by coercion, which can cover forms of
    pressure as varied as torture at one extreme to far more subtle means of inducement presented to the suspect at the other, there is a plain risk that the confession may prove untrue; and this is quite apart from any further consideration that, as a matter of policy, the law cannot simply be seen to have any truck with confessions obtained by especially devious or overreaching methods. Alternatively, a confession’s unreliability may stem from the constitution of the suspect: that person may be unusually suggestible, or may happen to be interviewed while in a vulnerable frame of mind or an impaired state, or may actually be suffering from a mental illness or identifiable personality disorder. In all these cases it has been found advisable to be circumspect about admitting confessional evidence. Unreliability,
    then, is far from being the only reason for which improperly obtained confessional evidence is excluded in English law. As Lord Griffiths observed in Lam Chi- Ming v R [1991] 2 AC 212, 220:
    . . . [T]he more recent English cases established that the rejection of an improperly
    obtained confession is not dependent only upon possible unreliability but also upon the
    principle that a man cannot be compelled to incriminate himself and upon the importance
    that attaches in a civilized society to proper behaviour by the police towards those in their
    custody.

  9. #329
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    As you can clearly see from the OP article, it certainly does not state anything that the boys' said
    as you can clearly see (and I quoted) at least one of them stated that they did it "for the fun of it". do you seriously believe the authorities would report it and risk a mistrial and/or lawsuits if the kid hadn't actually said it?
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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  10. #330
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    That's the case presented by the prosecution, and it most CERTAINLY gets more solid than a confession.

    http://fds.oup.com/www.oup.com/pdf/13/9780199600502.pdf
    A signed confession is damning evidence Chris, the only way the defense has a chance of that getting thrown out is to prove that the LEOs coerced it. The fact that the kids gave a reason for the confession................any defense is going to have a hell of a time with this, especially given the fact that they shot someone in the back who didn't even know he was a target, ran, and tried to hide evidence. All of it is documented.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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