View Poll Results: Should the 15 and 16 year old also be tried as adults

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  • yes and throw away the key

    89 89.00%
  • no, they deserve a second chance

    11 11.00%
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Thread: Should these teens be tried as adults

  1. #271
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I'm always skeptical of putting a fifteen or sixteen year old into a cage for the rest of their lives even if they committed an atrocious crime. Other than slaking a completely understandable desire for vengeance and potentially (though unlikely in the long run) soothing a victims family what is the purpose? It seems plausible that they could be rehabilitated and eventually reintroduced into society as productive citizens. This would in my view do more for society than holding them for life.
    We generally reach the age of understanding right from wrong at around 10 years of age. I would agree with you if it were a case of theft, vandalism, drug dealing, or any other crime where they did not kill someone. I draw the line at murder without just cause.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  2. #272
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I'm always skeptical of putting a fifteen or sixteen year old into a cage for the rest of their lives even if they committed an atrocious crime. Other than slaking a completely understandable desire for vengeance and potentially (though unlikely in the long run) soothing a victims family what is the purpose? It seems plausible that they could be rehabilitated and eventually reintroduced into society as productive citizens. This would in my view do more for society than holding them for life.
    I don't necessarily disagree with this, but not all murders get a life sentence. Furthermore, there are plenty of places that do make efforts to rehabilitate the overwhelming majority of their adult prisoners, and with a great degree of success.

    There's no reason we shouldn't be doing that anyway.

    By the same token, if they are deemed to be sociopathic, and thus they can't be rehabilitated, then I'd rather we throw away the key now than release them because they're a couple years shy of some arbitrary age, and have someone else have to pay with their life for that mistake.

  3. #273
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    I've got to say that a lot of people who are promoting leniency for a trio of late teens who essentially executed an innocent young man they didn't even know must not know many 15, 16, 17 year old young people these days. At that age, they are not country bumpkins and rubes and most young people that age are pretty level headed, smart, well adjusted, etc. etc.

    To make blanket statements that young people that age don't understand the concepts of right and wrong, don't appreciate the consequences of their actions, aren't mature enough, etc. is to suggest we've done a pretty crappy job collectively of raising children these days and the next generation is doomed.

    I don't believe it for a minute.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  4. #274
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    I don't necessarily disagree with this, but not all murders get a life sentence. Furthermore, there are plenty of places that do make efforts to rehabilitate the overwhelming majority of their adult prisoners, and with a great degree of success.

    There's no reason we shouldn't be doing that anyway.

    By the same token, if they are deemed to be sociopathic, and thus they can't be rehabilitated, then I'd rather we throw away the key now than release them because they're a couple years shy of some arbitrary age, and have someone else have to pay with their life for that mistake.

    Perhaps "great deal of success" depends on whether one is the victim of new crimes committed by ex-cons, or wishful thinkers.

    Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) - Recidivism

    During 2007, a total of 1,180,469 persons on parole were at-risk of reincarceration. This includes persons under parole supervision on January 1 or those entering parole during the year. Of these parolees, about 16% were returned to incarceration in 2007.
    Among nearly 300,000 prisoners released in 15 states in 1994, 67.5% were rearrested within 3 years. A study of prisoners released in 1983 estimated 62.5%.
    Of the 272,111 persons released from prisons in 15 states in 1994, an estimated 67.5% were rearrested for a felony or serious misdemeanor within 3 years, 46.9% were reconvicted, and 25.4% resentenced to prison for a new crime.

  5. #275
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Perhaps "great deal of success" depends on whether one is the victim of new crimes committed by ex-cons, or wishful thinkers.

    Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) - Recidivism

    During 2007, a total of 1,180,469 persons on parole were at-risk of reincarceration. This includes persons under parole supervision on January 1 or those entering parole during the year. Of these parolees, about 16% were returned to incarceration in 2007.
    Among nearly 300,000 prisoners released in 15 states in 1994, 67.5% were rearrested within 3 years. A study of prisoners released in 1983 estimated 62.5%.
    Of the 272,111 persons released from prisons in 15 states in 1994, an estimated 67.5% were rearrested for a felony or serious misdemeanor within 3 years, 46.9% were reconvicted, and 25.4% resentenced to prison for a new crime.
    These are not JUVENILE recidivism rates.

  6. #276
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    We generally reach the age of understanding right from wrong at around 10 years of age. I would agree with you if it were a case of theft, vandalism, drug dealing, or any other crime where they did not kill someone. I draw the line at murder without just cause.
    Well children do know right from wrong, it's understanding different levels of severity and future consequences which they can struggle with.
    An 8 year old, for example, will know that murder is wrong, but they also know not tidying their bedroom is wrong. To them, both things are wrong but their experiences will tell them that if you do something wrong, you get told off and maybe grounded.

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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I've got to say that a lot of people who are promoting leniency for a trio of late teens who essentially executed an innocent young man they didn't even know must not know many 15, 16, 17 year old young people these days. At that age, they are not country bumpkins and rubes and most young people that age are pretty level headed, smart, well adjusted, etc. etc.

    To make blanket statements that young people that age don't understand the concepts of right and wrong, don't appreciate the consequences of their actions, aren't mature enough, etc. is to suggest we've done a pretty crappy job collectively of raising children these days and the next generation is doomed.

    I don't believe it for a minute.
    No one is suggesting leniency, just not putting them death or throwing them into an adult correctional system. Also, I have a 17-year-old son, so I think I certainly do know exactly how they behave, etc., and I disagree with your assessment completely.

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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by TiredOfLife View Post
    The cleaners called, your pointy white hood is ready.
    Yes!

    I knew you would get there eventually.

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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr X View Post
    The law says they are minors, so they should be tried as minors. You can't just say minors are adults for convenience. No-one is defending them, and IF they are convicted, they should be severely punished.
    Exactly. I agree with this 100%.

  10. #280
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr X View Post
    Well children do know right from wrong, it's understanding different levels of severity and future consequences which they can struggle with.
    An 8 year old, for example, will know that murder is wrong, but they also know not tidying their bedroom is wrong. To them, both things are wrong but their experiences will tell them that if you do something wrong, you get told off and maybe grounded.
    We aren't discussing 8 year-olds.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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