View Poll Results: Should the 15 and 16 year old also be tried as adults

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  • yes and throw away the key

    89 89.00%
  • no, they deserve a second chance

    11 11.00%
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Thread: Should these teens be tried as adults

  1. #251
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I think kids are worth a shot at rehabilitation. Throwing them into the adult system only creates more chaos and doesn't do any good, but like I said multiple times I think the juvenile system also needs to be fixed so that kids have to do more time in the system for more serious crimes. There are no easy answers, because either way you are going to be mixing adults with minors and that isn't a good thing because they are just not the same. When it comes to a particularly heinous crime, I really don't know what else to do other than holding them for life. Maybe they get transferred over to the adult system somehow, but this I can see having unintended consequences too.
    While I don't think they can be rehabilitated, I don't think they should be thrown into the general prison population either. I think they should reside on death row until such time as they are executed. And just so they enjoy their last moments, maybe they could all be executed at the same time so they can see their friends die since watching someone die is apparently fun in their world.
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  2. #252
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    **** juvie....they did a big boy crime, they need to go to big boy prison.
    I am down with that, but chris wants them to get treated like little boys.

  3. #253
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    If you don't know by 16 the heinousness of premeditated murder, you really don't need a lifetime of freedom to try and figure it out.

  4. #254
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    And you can't say, well you're an adult when it comes to this, but not when it comes to this, this and this. Where the heck is the logic in that?
    Our society can and does say these type of things every day.
    16 to drive
    18 to vote
    21 to drink and buy pistol ammunition
    13 to pay full price at the movies.

    There are many exceptions that allow a Juvenile to be tried as an adult,
    and murder makes just about everyone's list.
    Juvenile Tried as an Adult | LegalMatch Law Library
    This is a reflection of what our legal system's bases purpose,
    to keep people who refuse to follow the rules, away from those of us who follow the rules.

  5. #255
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    I am down with that, but chris wants them to get treated like little boys.
    Again, a terrible argument, not addressing any of the points of the studies I linked to, such as scientific data demonstrating that 15, 16 and even a lot of 17 year olds are certainly NOT adults as much as you would like to view them as such. It's just not the case.

  6. #256
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    Our society can and does say these type of things every day.
    16 to drive
    18 to vote
    21 to drink and buy pistol ammunition
    13 to pay full price at the movies.

    There are many exceptions that allow a Juvenile to be tried as an adult,
    and murder makes just about everyone's list.
    Juvenile Tried as an Adult | LegalMatch Law Library
    This is a reflection of what our legal system's bases purpose,
    to keep people who refuse to follow the rules, away from those of us who follow the rules.
    Our juvenile justice system was established to try and rehabilitate rather than punish when it comes to crimes committed by children.

    https://www.ncjrs.gov/html/ojjdp/9912_2/juv1.html

    Throughout the late 18th century, "infants" below the age of reason (traditionally age 7) were presumed to be incapable of criminal intent and were, therefore, exempt from prosecution and punishment. Children as young as 7, however, could stand trial in criminal court for offenses committed and, if found guilty, could be sentenced to prison or even to death.

    The 19th-century movement that led to the establishment of the juvenile court in the U.S. had its roots in 16th-century European educational reform movements. These earlier reform movements changed the perception of children from one of miniature adults to one of persons with less than fully developed moral and cognitive capacities.

  7. #257
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Again, a terrible argument, not addressing any of the points of the studies I linked to, such as scientific data demonstrating that 15, 16 and even a lot of 17 year olds are certainly NOT adults as much as you would like to view them as such. It's just not the case.
    come on ChrisL, it's not like these guys were out goofing around and did something stupid that accidentally got someone killed. They set out with the express intention of killing a random human being because they thought it would be fun.
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  8. #258
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Sorry, no way. 15-16yo know murder is wrong. This wasn't in the heat of anger, or sort-kinda-by-accident, or negligence, or even in response to some insult or offense.... this was entirely malum-in-se with no mitigating circumstances. There are some things for which "they're just kids" is no longer an excuse for people past puberty. This was one.
    This. As remarkable as the changes in my cognition have been since I was 15, I definitely knew shooting people for fun was wrong, and that shooting people can kill them. There is no excuse for this. A 15-year-old is capable of empathy, understanding death, and understanding the law. That is all that is required for an adult to be tried as a competent individual, rather than under an insanity/mental deficiency clause.

    18 is an arbitrary age. We had to pick something, so we picked that. In truth, the human brain is undergoing development up until about 25 or so. So if people are claiming brain development is the reason they shouldn't be tried as adults, I suppose we should extend the same to a 24-year-old murderer?

    This is just plain old sociopathy.

  9. #259
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Again, a terrible argument, not addressing any of the points of the studies I linked to, such as scientific data demonstrating that 15, 16 and even a lot of 17 year olds are certainly NOT adults as much as you would like to view them as such. It's just not the case.
    Didnt know you needed a "study" to figure out what to do with killers.

  10. #260
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Our juvenile justice system was established to try and rehabilitate rather than punish when it comes to crimes committed by children.

    https://www.ncjrs.gov/html/ojjdp/9912_2/juv1.html
    I agree, but I don't think rehabilitation can fix what is broken in this case.
    But then again I am not a psychiatrist, in the case of freedom, perhaps
    a professional should judge weather they are fit to return to society.
    I still don't think I would want someone who places such a low value on
    life, living next to me.

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