View Poll Results: Should the 15 and 16 year old also be tried as adults

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  • yes and throw away the key

    89 89.00%
  • no, they deserve a second chance

    11 11.00%
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Thread: Should these teens be tried as adults

  1. #221
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Imprisonment as a juvenile and attempts at rehabilitation.
    What does imprisonment as a juvenile mean? Most can be released at age 21 unless they have been given a life sentence. What type of rehabilitation is offered in prison for shooting an innocent man in the back?

  2. #222
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by lolabird View Post
    What does imprisonment as a juvenile mean? Most can be released at age 21 unless they have been given a life sentence. What type of rehabilitation is offered in prison for shooting an innocent man in the back?
    It's all in the links I posted. I agree, that in cases of murder, a juvenile should be held for an extended period of time. I just don't know of a logical way to go about doing that, but throwing them into the adult correctional system is not doing anyone any favors.

  3. #223
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    And also:
    I know why. It's because people get angry and break out their pitchforks and torches. Instead of thinking logically about the situation, they let emotion take over.
    Hello Chris, I agree with you on many subjects, and respect your opinion,
    But I have one question, How old were you when you knew killing someone
    was wrong, and bad things might happen to you if you did?
    While they are clearly teens, and lacking in adult decision ability,
    their crime was not, "I beat someone up because they said something I did not like",
    But rather the willful taking of a human life...for entertainment!
    The decision tree that leads the the conclusion, is so flawed, that
    I question weather the person will ever be safe in society.

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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    Hello Chris, I agree with you on many subjects, and respect your opinion,
    But I have one question, How old were you when you knew killing someone
    was wrong, and bad things might happen to you if you did?
    While they are clearly teens, and lacking in adult decision ability,
    their crime was not, "I beat someone up because they said something I did not like",
    But rather the willful taking of a human life...for entertainment!
    The decision tree that leads the the conclusion, is so flawed, that
    I question weather the person will ever be safe in society.
    Some more information from one of the links, if only to save myself from trying to type this stuff out.

    7. Contrary to popular belief, it is the child and not his or her parent or guardian who must decide what to tell the police and defense attorneys, whether or not to follow attorney instructions, whether to testify, whether to give information to the prosecution, and whether to go to trial or accept a plea bargain. Although common sense would suggest that many children are simply too young to undertake such weighty legal responsibilities, it is rare for courts to consider whether children lack the competence to stand trial because of their age. Every child offender should have a competency hearing before trial.

    8. “Adult time for adult crime” may be a catchy phrase but it reflects a poor understanding of criminal justice principles. If the punishment is to fit the crime, both the nature of the offense and the culpability or moral responsibility of the offender must be taken into account. As the U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly recognized, the blameworthiness of children cannot be equated with that of adults, even when they commit the same crime.

  5. #225
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Either you apply the same standards to all or you get rid of legislation that mandates that minors are treated differently to adults. I don't see the sense or the justice in saying "minors will be treated as distinct from adults before the law" and then remove that status as it suits, for arbitrary reasons.

    Why not say that in cases of murder, there is no such thing as a minor? Giving judges discretion leads to suspicion that not everyone will receive equal treatment.
    Last edited by Andalublue; 08-21-13 at 11:03 AM.
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  6. #226
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    DUNCAN, Okla. (AP) — With the simplest of motives — breaking up the boredom of an Oklahoma summer — three teenagers followed an Australian collegiate baseball player who was attending school in the U.S. and killed him with a shot to the back for “the fun of it,” prosecutors said Tuesday as they charged two of the teens with murder.
    As the boys appeared in an Oklahoma courtroom, a 17-year-old blurted out, “I pulled the trigger,” then wept after a judge told him that Tuesday’s hearing wasn’t the time or place to sort out the facts of the case.
    Prosecutor Jason Hicks called the boys “thugs” as he told Stephens County Judge Jerry Herberger how Christopher Lane, 22, of Melbourne, died on a city street.
    Chancey Allen Luna, 16, and James Francis Edwards, Jr., 15, of Duncan were charged with first-degree murder and, under Oklahoma law, will be tried as adults. Michael Dewayne Jones, 17, of Duncan was accused of using a vehicle in the discharge of a weapon and accessory to first-degree murder after the fact. He is considered a youthful offender but will be tried in adult court. 3 Teens Charged After Australian Player Slain « CBS Houston
    They were old enough to understand that what they did was wrong. They murdered a man in cold blood, and should face the full penalty of law. What's worse is that they did it because they shot him "for the fun of it". They don't belong in civilization, they belong in a zoo with the rest of the animals.
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  7. #227
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    If you aren't referring to the death penalty, then I have no problem. I do believe they should be punished, but like I said earlier we've had the DP since Europeans first came to populate North America, and it hasn't really done anything to deter or prevent things like this from happening. I would like to see some solutions that actually work instead of the old "eye for an eye" routine.
    IF death meant death, it would have a deterent value. But its death, maybe after decades long appeals processes.
    Or if you luck out, you will die of old age first.
    And if you are put down, its nice and painless and calm with a last meal and people lined up to help you out.
    What do you think was going through that kids mind after he was shot?
    Was it a painless death? Did he get a last meal, a last phone call to loved ones? How about a trial?
    No, he had his life snatched a way. Because some punks were bored.

  8. #228
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Some more information from one of the links, if only to save myself from trying to type this stuff out.
    I can go along with that.
    I am thinking how I would feel, if even twenty years later,
    if someone who had killed people for entertainment, moved in next door.
    Someone who places such a low value on human life, would worry me.
    I don't think time and maturity fixes what is broken!

  9. #229
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    IF death meant death, it would have a deterent value. But its death, maybe after decades long appeals processes.
    Or if you luck out, you will die of old age first.
    And if you are put down, its nice and painless and calm with a last meal and people lined up to help you out.
    What do you think was going through that kids mind after he was shot?
    Was it a painless death? Did he get a last meal, a last phone call to loved ones? How about a trial?
    No, he had his life snatched a way. Because some punks were bored.
    Regarding the appeals process, anyone who understands our rights and the law can easily understand why the appeals process takes years. That is to ensure that our government is not murdering INNOCENT citizens. There have been numerous cases where prosecutors, etc., have engaged in illegal practices just to have a person convicted. This is a FACT. Just recently in Massachusetts there were TWO instances where the forensic laboratory technician forged results of their tests. One was having an affair with the assistant DA. Human beings are fallible, and THAT is why we have such an extensive appeals process.

    How can you support state-sponsored murder of citizens after they are already in custody and no longer a threat? You are okay with our government murdering it's people? Because THAT is what it is.

    The rest of your post is emotionally charged nonsense.

  10. #230
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    DUNCAN, Okla. (AP) — With the simplest of motives — breaking up the boredom of an Oklahoma summer — three teenagers followed an Australian collegiate baseball player who was attending school in the U.S. and killed him with a shot to the back for “the fun of it,” prosecutors said Tuesday as they charged two of the teens with murder.
    As the boys appeared in an Oklahoma courtroom, a 17-year-old blurted out, “I pulled the trigger,” then wept after a judge told him that Tuesday’s hearing wasn’t the time or place to sort out the facts of the case.
    Prosecutor Jason Hicks called the boys “thugs” as he told Stephens County Judge Jerry Herberger how Christopher Lane, 22, of Melbourne, died on a city street.
    Chancey Allen Luna, 16, and James Francis Edwards, Jr., 15, of Duncan were charged with first-degree murder and, under Oklahoma law, will be tried as adults. Michael Dewayne Jones, 17, of Duncan was accused of using a vehicle in the discharge of a weapon and accessory to first-degree murder after the fact. He is considered a youthful offender but will be tried in adult court. 3 Teens Charged After Australian Player Slain « CBS Houston
    they should be lined up and shot....."just for fun"
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