View Poll Results: Should the 15 and 16 year old also be tried as adults

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  • yes and throw away the key

    89 89.00%
  • no, they deserve a second chance

    11 11.00%
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Thread: Should these teens be tried as adults

  1. #171
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by TiredOfLife View Post
    The Right to Life only applies when we aren't killing people for our own benefit? That's very interesting. This Right to Life thing is tricky? Apparently in all depends on what you see as worthy of life and all those innocent Japanese civilians weren't? Tell me, what did they do to deserve death, being Japanese?
    Okay, here's the deal, you are just throwing things against a wall to see what sticks. I gave you a specific parameter and you've ignored it. War is a declared condition, get it? War is a specific breakdown of diplomacy and yes, innocents are harmed which is why most times it is avoided.

    We are speaking to peace time. You aren't making a case, rather you are engaging in a very weak game. The fact is when someone is born, minus the condition of abusing their life they have a legal right to exist, if you can't make a case against it, we're done.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  2. #172
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I believe in an earlier link I posted it claimed close to 80% of teens have been successfully rehabilitated. I'll have to go back and check.
    Cool. My thing is, the types like the kids in this story are probably within the 20%.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  3. #173
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Right, but what is getting me here is there are no numbers. All I'm seeing is "research confirms", and I don't know what the data is supposed to mean according to the article. Are we rehabilitating misdemeanor and borderline criminals, and is there promise shown with heinous crimes?
    ...Having [been a prosecutor] now for nearly 12 years, I have seen time and time and time again kids who were lost causes turn their lives around. And 80 percent of the kids that come before us one time never come back. . . .
    ... Based on your experience, what works with serious juvenile offenders and what doesn't work?

    There is no one answer with respect to rehabilitation for anyone. Juvenile rehabilitation is an art and not a science. What works for one kid may not work for another. And so what you try to do is to do as many things as possible, hoping that something works. Juvenile rehabilitation might be a lot like taking swings at a piñata. And the more swings you take, the better the chance is that you will hit it right and something will come out. I do think that if you take a look at the thousands of kids that I've dealt with over a decade or more, the idea is to do something that is significant early on. If you reach a kid early, chances are they won't re-offend. But with each additional entry into the system our success, our potential for rehabilitation gets slimmer and slimmer. . . .
    From Both Sides Of The Bench - What Works? | Juvenile Justice | FRONTLINE | PBS

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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Okay, here's the deal, you are just throwing things against a wall to see what sticks. I gave you a specific parameter and you've ignored it. War is a declared condition, get it? War is a specific breakdown of diplomacy and yes, innocents are harmed which is why most times it is avoided.

    We are speaking to peace time. You aren't making a case, rather you are engaging in a very weak game. The fact is when someone is born, minus the condition of abusing their life they have a legal right to exist, if you can't make a case against it, we're done.
    Innocents are harmed? You do mean "killed" don't you?

    And if there's no Right to Life during war then this Right of yours isn't much good now is it? I means it's not like it comes from God or something because all you have to do is go to war and there goes that right, right? It applies only when the conditions are right? That's not much of a right eh? And if it was, shouldn't the families of all those innocent Japanese people have a claim against those who killed them, us? Why does this right of yours have so many exceptions?

  5. #175
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Fair point. Again though, level of crime committed, are we speaking of typical crimes or the especially heinous? It's kind of like serial killer versus guy who caught his wife cheating, the person predispositioned to kill for no discernable reason(like boredom) has no business ever breathing air on the outside again.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  6. #176
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by TiredOfLife View Post
    Innocents are harmed? You do mean "killed" don't you?

    And if there's no Right to Life during war then this Right of yours isn't much good now is it? I means it's not like it comes from God or something because all you have to do is go to war and there goes that right, right? It applies only when the conditions are right? That's not much of a right eh? And if it was, shouldn't the families of all those innocent Japanese people have a claim against those who killed them, us? Why does this right of yours have so many exceptions?
    Right, you're trying to control the conversation instead of actually making your case, we're done here.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  7. #177
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Should state laws be followed, as in Texas? Are teens in RED states further "juiced" by those espousing 2nd amendment remedies?

    I'm sure easy access to guns could not have been a cause. Especially on Debate Politics, where anything goes. Open-carry by all and let's get it on.

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    DUNCAN, Okla. (AP) — With the simplest of motives — breaking up the boredom of an Oklahoma summer — three teenagers followed an Australian collegiate baseball player who was attending school in the U.S. and killed him with a shot to the back for “the fun of it,” prosecutors said Tuesday as they charged two of the teens with murder.
    As the boys appeared in an Oklahoma courtroom, a 17-year-old blurted out, “I pulled the trigger,” then wept after a judge told him that Tuesday’s hearing wasn’t the time or place to sort out the facts of the case.
    Prosecutor Jason Hicks called the boys “thugs” as he told Stephens County Judge Jerry Herberger how Christopher Lane, 22, of Melbourne, died on a city street.
    Chancey Allen Luna, 16, and James Francis Edwards, Jr., 15, of Duncan were charged with first-degree murder and, under Oklahoma law, will be tried as adults. Michael Dewayne Jones, 17, of Duncan was accused of using a vehicle in the discharge of a weapon and accessory to first-degree murder after the fact. He is considered a youthful offender but will be tried in adult court. 3 Teens Charged After Australian Player Slain « CBS Houston

  8. #178
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Cool. My thing is, the types like the kids in this story are probably within the 20%.
    I read that there is no documented recidivism rate for minors because of the fact that their records are not accessible to the public.

  9. #179
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I read that there is no documented recidivism rate for minors because of the fact that their records are not accessible to the public.
    That's possible, however I think that in the case of repeat offenders there have been some records opened, not familiar enough with it though TBH.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  10. #180
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Fair point. Again though, level of crime committed, are we speaking of typical crimes or the especially heinous? It's kind of like serial killer versus guy who caught his wife cheating, the person predispositioned to kill for no discernable reason(like boredom) has no business ever breathing air on the outside again.
    Another article if you're interested.

    Experts link teen brains' immaturity, juvenile crime - USATODAY.com

    It doesn't mean adolescents can't make a rational decision or appreciate the difference between right and wrong," he said. "It does mean, particularly when confronted with stressful or emotional decisions, they are more likely to act impulsively, on instinct, without fully understanding or analyzing the consequences of their actions."

    Experts say that even at ages 16 and 17, when compared to adults, juveniles on average are more:

    • Impulsive.

    • Aggressive.

    • Emotionally volatile.

    • Likely to take risks.

    • Reactive to stress.

    • Vulnerable to peer pressure.

    • Prone to focus on and overestimate short-term payoffs and underplay longer-term consequences of what they do.

    • Likely to overlook alternative courses of action.

    Violence toward others also tends to peak in adolescent years, says psychiatrist Peter Ash of Emory University. It's mostly likely to start around age 16, and people who haven't committed a violent crime by age 19 only rarely start doing it later, he said.

    The good news here, he said, is that a violent adolescent doesn't necessarily become a violent adult. Some two-thirds to three-quarters of violent youth grow out of it, he said. "They get more self-controlled."

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