View Poll Results: Should the 15 and 16 year old also be tried as adults

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  • yes and throw away the key

    89 89.00%
  • no, they deserve a second chance

    11 11.00%
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Thread: Should these teens be tried as adults

  1. #1071
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Wait a minute. Didn't you say you were against the death penalty, but now you're arguing for it. Hmm. Interesting position.

    Anyhow no. It's based on facts and knowledge. The death penalty is based on ignorance, vengeance and hatred. PERIOD.
    Let's hear you grovel for Steven Hayes and Joshua Komisarjevsky, who not only robbed the Petit family home, but raped the mother, the 17 year-old and 11 year-old daughter before typing them to their beds and dousing them with gasoline and setting fire to them.
    They received the death penalty, but the Petit father, who was nearly beaten to death and had the witness his daughters being raped, will have to live with the nightmare for the rest of his life.
    Do you think the monsters received a fair trial?

  2. #1072
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    According to the UN, it is cruel and unusual punishment.
    Not according to your own source:

    Although the death penalty is generally tolerated under international law
    It only suggested it was illegal under international law that is actually relevant to the United States in the case of minors and the death penalty.

    It shows that these countries are more intelligent than us.
    Still an appeal to emotion, still a strawman.

    Whether or not we are intelligent is irrelevant to the fact that broadly, or in regards to the US, capital punishment is not "murder".

    It's not an appeal to emotion.
    Yes, it is. It's using "simple facts" to appeal to emotion in hopes of making one feel like we're "dumb" or we're "evil" or we're "wrong" for having the death penalty by comparing us to "bad" or "dumb" countries when that is entirely irrelevant to the notion of whether or not it's "murder". Murder is not the "dumb killing" of someone, it's not the "evil killing" or someone, it's the "illegal" killing of someone. Continually pointing out the "fact" of which countries also allow for capital punishment does nothing against my statement OTHER than attempt to pull emotional heart strings.

    Nope, an appeal to the logical side of your brain instead of the emotional one that has knee-jerk reactions when it hears about crimes such as this and then screams out for blood lust when it solves no problems and is completely unnecessary.
    You prove my point precisely about your hyper emotional state.

    I haven't "screamed out for blood lust". I haven't actually suggested in any way what should happen to these kids. I've not suggested it'll solve any problems. I've SIMPLY and singularly stated that your BROAD claim that capital punishment is "state sponsored murder" is incorrect. That's it. YOU are the one having a "knee jerk reaction" that is an "emotional one" to my statement. YOU are the one assuming somehow that I'm suggesting that because it's not "murder" that it's somehow mean it must be less bad, less evil, less immoral, less wrong, etc. I've said no such thing. I've simply suggested that your claim or "murder" is incorrect.

    So IOW, you see other countries as bad for murdering their citizens because of the methods or the reasons they might use, but you think we do it "right."
    Here's a lesson for you, since you are failing MISERABLY and throwing fallacies all over the place. Ready?

    Read what people actually SAY, stop imagining what they say based on your prejducies and emotions

    I've made no comment about other countries "murdering" their citizens. ACTUALLY, quite to the contrary, I specifically said you would NOT find me complaining that a country is "murdering" it's citizens when it comes to the death penalty. This is REGARDLESS of how brutal I think the penalty is or how stupid I think the law is.

    I may DISLIKE their methods, I may think their laws are inhumane, I might think the country is an immoral batch of filth....but none of that means I'd think their killing of someone under their laws is "murder".

    This goes back to my suggestion that you're basing this fully and completely from a hyper emotional state. There is nothing inherently less immoral, evil, wrong, bad, etc about KILLING someone and MURDERING someone. It just happens that murder is a specific type of killing, the specifically unlawful kind.

    Will you feel sad when the states can't kill people anymore?
    I don't personally think we'll see it's abolition occur across the entire U.S. in my life time, but if we do...meh. I won't be sad over that. I think it'll be kind of foolish, becuase I think it's something that should be on the table, but I also don't have some over arching desire to desperately see it remain. Especially with how our appeals system works and how, almost counter intuitively, it seemingly costs the tax payers more to put someone to death then hold them for a life sentence. So I think it'll be a bit foolish to handcuff our options of what punishments are available if we get rid of it entirely, but it won't make me SAD in the least.

    When you kill someone who is not an immediate threat to you, that's murder. Sorry if you don't like it, but that's a fact.
    Again, you have a horrible understanding of what words mean. Your opinion is not fact, those two words mean entirely different. What you just stated is not the definition of murder

  3. #1073
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by lolabird View Post
    Let's hear you grovel for Steven Hayes and Joshua Komisarjevsky, who not only robbed the Petit family home, but raped the mother, the 17 year-old and 11 year-old daughter before typing them to their beds and dousing them with gasoline and setting fire to them.
    They received the death penalty, but the Petit father, who was nearly beaten to death and had the witness his daughters being raped, will have to live with the nightmare for the rest of his life.
    Do you think the monsters received a fair trial?
    First of all, if they were sentenced to LWOP, I would have no problem with that. They are removed from society, and not only that but they have to live with what they've done. Once you're dead, you're dead. No more problems. Not to mention, these were men, not kids.

    Secondly, I must say that you seem like an angry and bitter individual. I can see that conversing with you will lead to nowhere fast, so I'm going to end this little tit for tat now. Bye-bye now pleasant lady!

  4. #1074
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    No. I'm saying that people have already tried and convicted these kids in their own minds.
    When I think about an Australian man, who came to America to chase after his dreams, just out for a job when 3 monsters drove up and shot him in the back, I am outraged to the point of wanting the monsters to be tried as adults and pay the price of their inexcusable and warrantless actions; those of a coward.
    If you believe that they did not know what they were doing when held the gun, aimed the gun a and shot, then you need a heavy dose of reality.

  5. #1075
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by lolabird View Post
    When I think about an Australian man, who came to America to chase after his dreams, just out for a job when 3 monsters drove up and shot him in the back, I am outraged to the point of wanting the monsters to be tried as adults and pay the price of their inexcusable and warrantless actions; those of a coward.
    If you believe that they did not know what they were doing when held the gun, aimed the gun a and shot, then you need a heavy dose of reality.
    Well, obviously you are not a logical person. They are not monsters, they are stupid kids.

    And you wanting to kill them or see them dead, makes you what?

    Honestly, I really don't care what you think.

  6. #1076
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Not according to your own source:



    It only suggested it was illegal under international law that is actually relevant to the United States in the case of minors and the death penalty.



    Still an appeal to emotion, still a strawman.

    Whether or not we are intelligent is irrelevant to the fact that broadly, or in regards to the US, capital punishment is not "murder".



    Yes, it is. It's using "simple facts" to appeal to emotion in hopes of making one feel like we're "dumb" or we're "evil" or we're "wrong" for having the death penalty by comparing us to "bad" or "dumb" countries when that is entirely irrelevant to the notion of whether or not it's "murder". Murder is not the "dumb killing" of someone, it's not the "evil killing" or someone, it's the "illegal" killing of someone. Continually pointing out the "fact" of which countries also allow for capital punishment does nothing against my statement OTHER than attempt to pull emotional heart strings.



    You prove my point precisely about your hyper emotional state.

    I haven't "screamed out for blood lust". I haven't actually suggested in any way what should happen to these kids. I've not suggested it'll solve any problems. I've SIMPLY and singularly stated that your BROAD claim that capital punishment is "state sponsored murder" is incorrect. That's it. YOU are the one having a "knee jerk reaction" that is an "emotional one" to my statement. YOU are the one assuming somehow that I'm suggesting that because it's not "murder" that it's somehow mean it must be less bad, less evil, less immoral, less wrong, etc. I've said no such thing. I've simply suggested that your claim or "murder" is incorrect.



    Here's a lesson for you, since you are failing MISERABLY and throwing fallacies all over the place. Ready?

    Read what people actually SAY, stop imagining what they say based on your prejducies and emotions

    I've made no comment about other countries "murdering" their citizens. ACTUALLY, quite to the contrary, I specifically said you would NOT find me complaining that a country is "murdering" it's citizens when it comes to the death penalty. This is REGARDLESS of how brutal I think the penalty is or how stupid I think the law is.

    I may DISLIKE their methods, I may think their laws are inhumane, I might think the country is an immoral batch of filth....but none of that means I'd think their killing of someone under their laws is "murder".

    This goes back to my suggestion that you're basing this fully and completely from a hyper emotional state. There is nothing inherently less immoral, evil, wrong, bad, etc about KILLING someone and MURDERING someone. It just happens that murder is a specific type of killing, the specifically unlawful kind.



    I don't personally think we'll see it's abolition occur across the entire U.S. in my life time, but if we do...meh. I won't be sad over that. I think it'll be kind of foolish, becuase I think it's something that should be on the table, but I also don't have some over arching desire to desperately see it remain. Especially with how our appeals system works and how, almost counter intuitively, it seemingly costs the tax payers more to put someone to death then hold them for a life sentence. So I think it'll be a bit foolish to handcuff our options of what punishments are available if we get rid of it entirely, but it won't make me SAD in the least.



    Again, you have a horrible understanding of what words mean. Your opinion is not fact, those two words mean entirely different. What you just stated is not the definition of murder
    Sorry, I have to log off now. Will have to look at this later.

  7. #1077
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    First of all, if they were sentenced to LWOP, I would have no problem with that. They are removed from society, and not only that but they have to live with what they've done. Once you're dead, you're dead. No more problems. Not to mention, these were men, not kids.

    Secondly, I must say that you seem like an angry and bitter individual. I can see that conversing with you will lead to nowhere fast, so I'm going to end this little tit for tat now. Bye-bye now pleasant lady!
    Your filibustering will not work with me.
    If you are willing to post your opinions, then surely you are willing to acknowledge that others have opinions as well, and interjecting your personal insults will not hamper my viewpoint.
    Why is it that when people try to present facts, those who have orated the loudest are the ones to revert to ad hominem attacks?

  8. #1078
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Well, obviously you are not a logical person. They are not monsters, they are stupid kids.

    And you wanting to kill them or see them dead, makes you what?

    Honestly, I really don't care what you think.
    How in the world you ascertain if someone is logical or not based upon your mindset?
    Anyone who would callously shoot an innocent stranger in the back is a monster.
    If you don't care what I think then stop reading my posts.

  9. #1079
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by lolabird View Post
    Your filibustering will not work with me.
    If you are willing to post your opinions, then surely you are willing to acknowledge that others have opinions as well, and interjecting your personal insults will not hamper my viewpoint.
    Why is it that when people try to present facts, those who have orated the loudest are the ones to revert to ad hominem attacks?
    Just an FYI, calling three teenagers "monsters" isn't presenting facts.

  10. #1080
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    Re: Should these teens be tried as adults

    Quote Originally Posted by TiredOfLife View Post
    Just an FYI, calling three teenagers "monsters" isn't presenting facts.
    The facts have been presented. They shot an innocent stranger IN THE BACK for no apparent reason other than ....
    How would you define the three?

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