Bullying...

Nynaeve Meara said:

It also works the best, because the internet is forever. So even if its stopped, it will always be online to be viewed at one time or another. Look at the Star Wars kid or Numa Numa dance as prime examples of cyber bullying.

Click to expand...

the star wars kid (real name Ghyslain Raza) is now a lawyer.

Says Raza, "You’ll survive. You’ll get through it. And you’re not alone. You are surrounded by people who love you."'

Click to expand...

Mason66 said:

I think things are much more violent today.

30 years ago it was two guys fighting after school, now it is one guy and all his friends with guns and knives against that one guy.

I don't remember weapons being such a concern back then in school.

Click to expand...

When I attended high school, it was nothing unusual to look out across the parking lot and see rifles in the gun racks of the student's trucks. Even our most destestible bullies, (aka, "goat ropers,",) did their bullying with fists.

One thing I have noticed, however. Many of these high school bullies from back in my day, these Scoal dipping redneck "goat ropers," are now old men on FaceBook, forever hating the president and passing around all that debunked rightwing propaganda that goes for gospel down in the great state of Texas.

I guess once an idiot always an idiot. LOL!

OscarB63 said:

the star wars kid (real name Ghyslain Raza) is now a lawyer.

Click to expand...

Star Wars Kid Settlement
The perpetrators got punished severely by the media and settled out of court. IE attention was drawn to the bullies without violence involved.

Amazing how that works... and no one was beat up.

I think men and women deal with bullying differently. Seems like when a man stands up to a bully he can often win the respect of the guy. They can beat the crap out of each other and then become best friends. With women you have to watch your back for the rest of your life. Hate to dis my own gender but ....

Captain America said:

I did something like that to a person I met on FaceBook recently. Back in elementary school, me and some of the other boys picked on her. Said she had 'cooties." Called her Boogernose. Well, that bothered me all my life, since. I found her on FaceBook and made all apologies. She was very forgiving about it. She said, "Don't let that bother you. We were just kids."

I'm not so sure if me reaching out to her helped her emotionally as much as it did me.

Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt5dDtQT_xg

Captain America said:

When I attended high school, it was nothing unusual to look out across the parking lot and see rifles in the gun racks of the student's trucks. Even our most destestible bullies, (aka, "goat ropers,",) did their bullying with fists.

One thing I have noticed, however. Many of these high school bullies from back in my day, these Scoal dipping redneck "goat ropers," are now old men on FaceBook, forever hating the president and passing around all that debunked rightwing propaganda that goes for gospel down in the great state of Texas.

I guess once an idiot always an idiot. LOL!

Click to expand...

I don't see rifles in gun racks as equal to hand guns and knives that are actual used to kill people.

Those rifles are mostly a statement meant to scare somebody. I doubt most of them would use the gun against a human.

I would say that a large percentage of bullying that occurs in middle- and high-school does have a homophobic element to it, which is why it is a big part of the anti-bullying movement. Bullies have always picked on those they perceive to be less masculine. When I was growing up in the late 90s, early 00s, "you're gay" was like one of the worst insults you could hurl at someone. I doubt a lot of the bullies meant it in a literal you-have-sex-with-other-men way, it was meant more as "you're pathetic, you're weak, you're a sissy" type of thing. And many (most?) of the victims were probably not, in fact, gay.

I personally was not bullied much in school, although I am gay and knew it at the time. But I have no doubt that being immersed in that culture, where even your friends say things like "shut up faggot" or make anti-gay jokes when they are just teasing around, accentuated my insecurity and helped instigate an impossible conflict where for years I wanted and tried to be someone different. I think it is probably very hard to imagine how it would feel to be made fun of or degraded for something that, no matter how hard you try, you cannot seem to change. Every time somebody would say something like that it was like a jolt through my system, and I would feel sick and uncomfortable, and seeing other people being beat up or harassed for being effeminate served as an effective deterrent to opening up about what I was going through with anyone, including friends or family. I would say that bullying -- and perhaps homophobic bullying in particular -- is as much psychological as it is physical.

So I find it completely unsurprising that this issue is a big deal to a lot of gay people and gay rights groups, as it should be. But I certainly do not feel that I care only about gay victims of bullying or about homophobic bullying, and I am sure that the actual anti-bullying organizations are just as welcoming to straight victims as they are to anyone else.

CanadaJohn said:

I appreciate what your saying - my reference was to the issue of a supportive family and far too many young people today don't have supportive families to help take away some of the stress.

As for girls, they haven't been all "sugar and spice" since I don't know when - you're bang on about the viciousness of some "little" girls.

Click to expand...

Gotcha. Well something I've noticed is that some parents have moved from the TV being a babysitter, to the internet, and that is sooooooo much worse than the TV ever thought about being. Parents need to wake the hell up and see what's going on in their kids' lives. I have said this before, but I unapologetically check my daughters' phones, and my older daughter, who hasn't made the best choices, is extremely limited in internet usage, and has no Facebook or any kind of social media at all. She has friends that she texts, but she's limited on that as well, as I only allow her to text girls I know, and even then, it's only a few of them. I will never apologize for being this way with my girls. They may not appreciate it now, but hopefully they will later. Hopefully. :lol:

OscarB63 said:

Billy Madison Scene - YouTube

Click to expand...

Do you know how many times that scene has played through my mind as I read this thread? As I kept reading all the comments about, "I called so and so to say I'm sorry," all I could see was that at least Steve Buscemi wasn't going to show up at your house, wearing lipstick and carrying a rifle. :lol:

Mason66 said:

If that is true, the question is why. Why is something that happened during the school years affecting a person years later?

Click to expand...

As Radcen and I were discussing earlier, it could simply reflect that these people are somehow mentally weak to begin with and that bullies are attracted to them, sensing the weakness, and compounding problems they may have been hard-wired to experience regardless of the environmental issues in their youth. I don't think we have answers yet - I simply added the reference to the study to indicate not all kids benefit and toughen-up from the experience.

CanadaJohn said:

As Radcen and I were discussing earlier, it could simply reflect that these people are somehow mentally weak to begin with and that bullies are attracted to them, sensing the weakness, and compounding problems they may have been hard-wired to experience regardless of the environmental issues in their youth. I don't think we have answers yet - I simply added the reference to the study to indicate not all kids benefit and toughen-up from the experience.

Click to expand...

I understand that.

Superfly said:

Gotcha. Well something I've noticed is that some parents have moved from the TV being a babysitter, to the internet, and that is sooooooo much worse than the TV ever thought about being. Parents need to wake the hell up and see what's going on in their kids' lives. I have said this before, but I unapologetically check my daughters' phones, and my older daughter, who hasn't made the best choices, is extremely limited in internet usage, and has no Facebook or any kind of social media at all. She has friends that she texts, but she's limited on that as well, as I only allow her to text girls I know, and even then, it's only a few of them. I will never apologize for being this way with my girls. They may not appreciate it now, but hopefully they will later. Hopefully. :lol:

Click to expand...

I think they will appreciate it - I'm a firm believer in the concept of children liking boundaries - they fight against them, but having boundaries helps them be part of something important. One of my generation's greatest flaws has been that we had so much and gave so much to our children, didn't give them those boundaries, didn't make them work for things, and many young adults now have an unrealistic view of how they should be situated in adult life. Hearing no now seems so unfair since they never or seldom heard it growing up.

Being a good parent is never a bad thing - either your children will come to appreciate it, or even if they don't the chances are far better they'll be good adults and that's a parent's primary job.

Dapper Andy said:

I just think there is a big different between something that are serious and others that are relatively trivial.

"Gangs" of kids attacking the son you mentioned previously and severely hurting him is very serious but the daughter who had her feelings hurt is relatively trivial. I don't doubt being unpopular is no picnic but that's life.

Click to expand...

So boys who get beat up physically are a serious matter, but girls who suffer public ridicule and derision on-line is trivial? Did you really say something so callous and stupid??

There are cases, probably thousands of them, where a girl has naked photos taken of her without her consent by a classmate in gym class, and those photos are distributed throughout the entire school and beyond, resulting in a flood of hate posts calling her a slut, whore, etc. Boys yell "nice tits!" as she walks the hall of her own school. She receives dozens of insulting texts, and if she has a facebook page, it is filled with derision, ridicule and taunts to "go kill yourself, whore". Boys don't want to be seen talking to her, girls either avoid her or join in the taunts. She's utterly alone. And it doesn't end when she goes home; it's on her phone, her computer, all over the internet. To you this is "trivial"? That is a completely disgusting and revolting point of view, reflecting no understanding, compassion or empathy. It's pathetic, and an unbelievably cruel thing to say.

Captain Adverse said:

I grew up in Harlem, NYC. I also spent time with family living in Watts, LA just a couple of blocks from the Towers. No one had to report anything to me...I lived it. Don't pull that crap with me. I know whereof I speak.

Click to expand...

Good for you. I've attended affluent public schools and private schools my entire sheltered life. Life in the wine and cheese crowd is as ducky as ever. No problems with bullies in white america.

Superfly said:

OMG I couldn't disagree more. You can recover from a fist-fight. Girls are killing themselves in record numbers because of cyber-bullying. Looking at it from your point of view, the numbers don't surprise me, because if it's not physical, it's not bullying, so go pull up your big girl panties, girlie, and get to school. If someone isn't hitting you, they aren't hurting you. :roll: Sheeesh.

Click to expand...

That's the way I see it and I was bullied pretty mercilessly myself. Hate to say it, but bullying made me what I am today. Without that tempering I doubt I would have been able to handle the more difficult **** storms I have been though. It taught me a very important lesson that when the **** hits the fan a clear head and open eyes are best. The bullying didn't stop at home either and we didn't have computers, I had brothers and sisters, and it was always a three or more on one affair. Quite frankly children today are way to sheltered, my littlest brother has never had the experience I and my other older siblings did growing up and I think it detracts a bit. We tease him but we are older and lazier now so its not near as harsh and we are much more good natured then when we were growing up. That's my take. Oh there was a saying growing up that we used to have, "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me, nener nerner. :2razz:" We always tried to come up with good one liner comebacks. Never hardly worked except for every once in awhile we would knock one out the park so to speak. It was worth all the other failures to see the look on their faces I thought. :mrgreen:

PirateMk1 said:

That's the way I see it and I was bullied pretty mercilessly myself. Hate to say it, but bullying made me what I am today. Without that tempering I doubt I would have been able to handle the more difficult **** storms I have been though. It taught me a very important lesson that when the **** hits the fan a clear head and open eyes are best. The bullying didn't stop at home either and we didn't have computers, I had brothers and sisters, and it was always a three or more on one affair. Quite frankly children today are way to sheltered, my littlest brother has never had the experience I and my other older siblings did growing up and I think it detracts a bit. We tease him but we are older and lazier now so its not near as harsh and we are much more good natured then when we were growing up. That's my take. Oh there was a saying growing up that we used to have, "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me, nener nerner. :2razz:" We always tried to come up with good one liner comebacks. Never hardly worked except for every once in awhile we would knock one out the park so to speak. It was worth all the other failures to see the look on their faces I thought. :mrgreen:

Click to expand...

But things are different now, Pirate. They are. We all were bullied when we were kids, but today's kids don't handle it as easily. They jump out a window, or shoot up a school full of kids. Is it because we are raising them with kid gloves now? I don't know. I just know that it's a different world we live in now, and yes, despite the "sticks and stones" stuff, words DO hurt.

DiAnna said:

So boys who get beat up physically are a serious matter, but girls who suffer public ridicule and derision on-line is trivial? Did you really say something so callous and stupid??

There are cases, probably thousands of them, where a girl has naked photos taken of her without her consent by a classmate in gym class, and those photos are distributed throughout the entire school and beyond, resulting in a flood of hate posts calling her a slut, whore, etc. Boys yell "nice tits!" as she walks the hall of her own school. She receives dozens of insulting texts, and if she has a facebook page, it is filled with derision, ridicule and taunts to "go kill yourself, whore". Boys don't want to be seen talking to her, girls either avoid her or join in the taunts. She's utterly alone. And it doesn't end when she goes home; it's on her phone, her computer, all over the internet. To you this is "trivial"? That is a completely disgusting and revolting point of view, reflecting no understanding, compassion or empathy. It's pathetic, and an unbelievably cruel thing to say.

Click to expand...

I agree with him actually. I was bullied myself fairly harshly. I am not pretty, in fact I hit more then a few branches of the ugly tree on the way down, and I was portly. Easy pickens for awhile until I earned my bones so to speak. If a girl is being bullied there are two options. Sit there and take it, or dish it back out. If she sits there and takes it, that makes her easy meat. Sorry but children are cruel little beasts and will be utterly heartless. Bullying is OPORTUNITY to prove oneself and EARN respect. Mommy and daddy coming to rescue just exacerbates the problem. If I was giving advise to a young girl, I would tell her to roll with the punches and learn to dish it back out. A good one liner every once in awhile will eventually shut down even the cruelest bitch. It will take time but eventually she will EARN respect and that more than anything else will build their self-esteem.

Superfly said:

I just know that it's a different world we live in now, and yes, despite the "sticks and stones" stuff, words DO hurt.

Click to expand...

If you can't handle words as a kid, you may as well just eat a bullet. It doesn't end at adulthood.

I don't want to say "sack up, *****", but...sack up, *****. Minimal bullying is good, because it toughens the skin. It's also a good way to bust a runaway ego down a notch or three.

PirateMk1 said:

I agree with him actually. I was bullied myself fairly harshly. I am not pretty, in fact I hit more then a few branches of the ugly tree on the way down, and I was portly. Easy pickens for awhile until I earned my bones so to speak. If a girl is being bullied there are two options. Sit there and take it, or dish it back out. If she sits there and takes it, that makes her easy meat. Sorry but children are cruel little beasts and will be utterly heartless. Bullying is OPORTUNITY to prove oneself and EARN respect. Mommy and daddy coming to rescue just exacerbates the problem. If I was giving advise to a young girl, I would tell her to roll with the punches and learn to dish it back out. A good one liner every once in awhile will eventually shut down even the cruelest bitch. It will take time but eventually she will EARN respect and that more than anything else will build their self-esteem.

Click to expand...

If you also believe that boys being bullied is serious, but girls being bullied is trivial, then I disagree with you just as much as I disagree with him, and for the same reasons.

CanadaJohn said:

They could, if they had parents who didn't cede parenting to the TV and internet. Any child traumatized by cyber-bullying need only cease to log onto the internet - it soon goes away when the intended audience isn't listening/viewing.

Click to expand...

Superfly said:

I used to think that, too, John, but it's not that easy. When I was a kid, if there was a kid that was bullied, he was bullied by a handful of people, usually, and that was it. Now, it doesn't matter if a girl turns off her computer or not - the same viciousness and hatefulness is going on whether she's there to see it or not.

One cell phone camera + Facebook could potentially = destruction in a teenage girl's life. Girls are so mean, anyway. It's more girls than boys now. I have a very good friend whose daughter was being mercilessly bullied, because they didn't have a lot of money. They picked on her because of her phone. It was an older trac phone that her Dad gave to her, and put minutes on there so she could be like the other kids and have a cell phone. Thing was, the bitches at her school still made fun of her because it wasn't an iPhone. And it's not just going on in the halls at school. It happens online, with increasing frequency, and it gets spread until it goes viral in the school. Then, no matter if she was watching it happen online or not, the bullying gets worse in school, because she's being called names, laughed at, etc.

It's not just as easy as walking away. I always thought the same thing, but I was wrong.

Click to expand...

CanadaJohn said:

I appreciate what your saying - my reference was to the issue of a supportive family and far too many young people today don't have supportive families to help take away some of the stress.

As for girls, they haven't been all "sugar and spice" since I don't know when - you're bang on about the viciousness of some "little" girls.

Click to expand...

I get ya, but I would still have to lean toward Superfly. Even if you are sequestered in your room reading a book, you know it's still going on. It used to be that pretty much nobody gave you a second thought when you weren't in eye shot. That's the difference.

Mustachio said:

I think we're on track and taking many of the right measures. When I was in high school (not all that long ago, but I guess a decade is a good chunk of time) the only thing to stop bullies was a video we watched about a kid who killed himself because he was bullied. It helped for about a week and then everybody forgot about it. The problem wasn't just that kids were bullied, it was that those who were neither bullies nor the bullied made no attempt to help the situation. They'd just jump on the pile and make fun of the weak, the underprivileged, the different, even the deaf -- seriously, the deaf. The natural urge is to make fun of the people everybody else is making fun of to divert attention away from yourself, who could be next.

With the numerous campaigns that exist today, I think we're headed in the right direction. Many schools have more comprehensive anti-bullying programs than they did 10 years ago, and more importantly, the students are exposed to media campaigns and documentaries, which really does help IMHO. I don't think you can ever stop the bullies from bullying. But I think you can persuade the rest of the student body to be civil toward students who are bullied. Years after high school I wrote to the students I felt were bullied and apologized to them for what they went through and for not doing more to be kind to them. I was surprised when told that I was the only person who bothered to do this. My advice to anybody in their 20s: do what I did. You could really help somebody who may still be recovering from the trauma that was the first 18 years of their life.

Click to expand...

Wholeheartedly agree with this. I'll even take it a step further and say this is why most people prefer to be average. The extremes... of both failure and success... threatens people and they will lash out accordingly.

radcen said:

Bullying... the new trendy social issue. How are we doing at addressing it?

I don't think any reasonable person would deny that bullying exists, but... are we properly addressing the issue or are we blowing it out of proportion?

Click to expand...

New?? There's nothing new about bullying. I don't think there would be a single person here that hasn't been the victim of bullying at least once during their life.

Superfly said:

But things are different now, Pirate. They are. We all were bullied when we were kids, but today's kids don't handle it as easily. They jump out a window, or shoot up a school full of kids. Is it because we are raising them with kid gloves now? I don't know. I just know that it's a different world we live in now, and yes, despite the "sticks and stones" stuff, words DO hurt.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, we're raising a generation of kids that are essentially wimps. They don't know how to handle adversity, they don't know how to handle challenge or hardship, they want everything handed to them on a silver platter. Back when we were kids, we had bullies and we learned how to deal with them and overcome them. We didn't go whine on Facebook and kill ourselves because life isn't always peachy. If kids are unable to handle some harsh words, they probably shouldn't be in the gene pool.

Superfly said:

But things are different now, Pirate. They are. We all were bullied when we were kids, but today's kids don't handle it as easily. They jump out a window, or shoot up a school full of kids. Is it because we are raising them with kid gloves now? I don't know. I just know that it's a different world we live in now, and yes, despite the "sticks and stones" stuff, words DO hurt.

Click to expand...

Please spare me that horse****. That's exactly what it is too. Children are no more fragile now then before. There is ONE and only one difference between to today and yesterday and that's children are way more coddled. Just like when I was growing up I was more coddled then my parents were. Children are the same as they have ever been. And the world sure as hell at least in this country is a LOT less crueler then it was even when I or you were growing up and most definitely when our parents and their parents were growing up.

Words only hurt one thing puppets. Are you a puppet? Are your children puppets? Are you and your children to manipulated as if you were puppets, at the will of some one else? One of the MOST valuable lessons we learn when we are growing up is that words ONLY have the meaning and power WE the listener assign them and no more. Have you not learned that lesson. Have you taught your children that lesson? Its one we should ALL learn and well. Your words only have worth to me, if I and ONLY I assign them worth. If I assign your words no worth then you may as well be farting as talking. I would deny NO child that very valuable lesson. It teaches something else as well, to have strength and confidence in oneself.

DiAnna said:

If you also believe that boys being bullied is serious, but girls being bullied is trivial, then I disagree with you just as much as I disagree with him, and for the same reasons.

Click to expand...

I believe bullying is serious business all the way around. But I also believe it is opportunity for children to EARN respect and should be looked forward to as an obstacle to overcome.

TheGirlNextDoor said:

New?? There's nothing new about bullying. I don't think there would be a single person here that hasn't been the victim of bullying at least once during their life.

Click to expand...

You misunderstood the question. It did not imply that bullying is new, only that bullying as a social issue to be tackled is relatively new. Back in the day you heard "Fight back" or "Suck it up and get over it". Today you have programs and posters and slogans and grandstanding politicians and all kinds of 'help'.