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Bullying...

How are we doing at addressing bullying?

  • We're not doing enough.

    Votes: 26 43.3%
  • We're right on track and taking appropriate measures.

    Votes: 7 11.7%
  • We're blowing it way out of proportion.

    Votes: 20 33.3%
  • Other.

    Votes: 7 11.7%

  • Total voters
    60
Evidence suggests otherwise. Violent acts against a bully in modern times have proven futile in most cases as the bullying isn't always a result of a physical altercation. There are too many psychological factors with technology that allow for a confrontation that isn't done by all sides(parents, teachers, counselors, & etc). Failure to confront the issues of the bully(by their peer groups and guardians) only result in less in your face bullying and more behind the back of the bullied person. This can be seen all over the world and in the human population, which is why "news" sites like TMZ make so much money. The hottest rumor or gossip is just another version of bullying only on a larger scale.
As I said it is a complex problem. Violence can be an effective tool to stop an incident of bullying. That doesnt necessarily change the bully. Where parental support is not a realistic option, the only way bullies tend to stop is when consequence becomes so great that they resist. However...if you are a kid being bullied, waiting for the magic cure and enduring incidents of bullying is untenable.
 
I suspect that the cyber aspect is what has caused the issue to increase. Back in the day, at least you could go home and be with your own family and escape the onslaught for awhile. Now, kids can't even do that.

Agreed. It also has the capacity to go much, much larger, as it can even be seen by other kids, other school districts, even other cities and states. Sometimes, I think the internet is one of the best things to ever happen to us. Other times, when I look at my teenage daughters, I think that it's probably one of the worst. The internet has made parenting infinitely harder.
 
Violence is not the answer and it seems to be very much part of the culture you grew up in.

You think so? When I was a freshman in high school there was a girl this one guy liked, but she liked me and it pissed him off. He (let's call him E) had this buddy (MM) who was like a hulk compared to the rest of us kids, weighed like 180 lbs and could bench press 200. Real musclebound but not too smart, so E decided to have MM deal with me by having him pick a fight with me in the boys locker room during gym class. I weighed like 120 lbs, just a regular kid, and kept telling him I didn't want to when he sucker punched me.

So I fought back...in front of my whole gym class. I got a couple of good licks in at first but hardly fazed him. The kids watching started by making fun of me (you know, sucking up to the bigger guy), but then they started getting quiet, and then started telling me to stay down and telling MM to stop. MM must have knocked me down about eight times before a teacher got there. But I never stayed down. I just kept getting up.

Ther principal suspended us both for a week. But after that day NO ONE in school ever messed with me again, including MM. Sometimes violence DOES solved the problem.
 
As I said it is a complex problem. Violence can be an effective tool to stop an incident of bullying. That doesnt necessarily change the bully. Where parental support is not a realistic option, the only way bullies tend to stop is when consequence becomes so great that they resist. However...if you are a kid being bullied, waiting for the magic cure and enduring incidents of bullying is untenable.
I don't consider stopping a single incident of bullying would be an effective treatment if someone was hurt physically as a part of that confrontation. All that does is teach someone that violence is the answer to their problems if they are being hurt. Which can reinforce negative behaviour throughout their adult life. The ideal solution would involve all aspects of the bullies life which can be accomplished if everyone agrees on the issue to begin with. Since it is usually a learned response (bullying) that makes it that much harder if the parents simply don't see it as a problem or are the cause of the problem to begin with.
 
You think so? When I was a freshman in high school there was a girl this one guy liked, but she liked me and it pissed him off. He (let's call him E) had this buddy (MM) who was like a hulk compared to the rest of us kids, weighed like 180 lbs and could bench press 200. Real musclebound but not too smart, so E decided to have MM deal with me by having him pick a fight with me in the boys locker room during gym class. I weighed like 120 lbs, just a regular kid, and kept telling him I didn't want to when he sucker punched me.

So I fought back...in front of my whole gym class. I got a couple of good licks in at first but hardly fazed him. The kids watching started by making fun of me (you know, sucking up to the bigger guy), but then they started getting quiet, and then started telling me to stay down and telling MM to stop. MM must have knocked me down about eight times before a teacher got there. But I never stayed down. I just kept getting up.

Ther principal suspended us both for a week. But after that day NO ONE in school ever messed with me again, including MM. Sometimes violence DOES solved the problem.

How many years ago was this? 20? 30? Timeframe is the issue and the generation at the time still had certain propaganda in their heads.
 
Sure it does somewhat, but you are ignoring the abuse he talks about in the book I referenced. Granted it may not have been true, but his grandfather IIRC is dead and has been for some time at the time of that book being written.

Which is why I don't accept the "sociopathy" born concept. A moral compass is learned mostly from your parents and culture. A good example is the Mayans, many of their moral codes are foreign to us today; but for them it was normal life.

Using a cookie cutter concept doesn't make it automatically true for the person.
 
How many years ago was this? 20? 30? Timeframe is the issue and the generation at the time still had certain propaganda in their heads.

It does not matter "how long ago" it was. The point is that sometimes you need to stand up for yourself, even when it seems hopeless. Otherwise you'll be a victim all your life.
 
It does not matter "how long ago" it was. The point is that sometimes you need to stand up for yourself, even when it seems hopeless. Otherwise you'll be a victim all your life.

you've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything......
 
I don't consider stopping a single incident of bullying would be an effective treatment if someone was hurt physically as a part of that confrontation. All that does is teach someone that violence is the answer to their problems if they are being hurt. Which can reinforce negative behaviour throughout their adult life. The ideal solution would involve all aspects of the bullies life which can be accomplished if everyone agrees on the issue to begin with. Since it is usually a learned response (bullying) that makes it that much harder if the parents simply don't see it as a problem or are the cause of the problem to begin with.
You may not see it that way. However when you are the recipient of that singular act and are getting no support from parents or school officials, frankly...you dont care what others may or may not think. Your high minded ideals arent relevant to the kid being picked on. They dont want social change...they want to walk through school hallways and not fear being picked on.

I can point to several incidents where violence was indeed a part of the solution. Large scale solution? no. Immediate solution? You bet. And when you find that ideal world, let us know what color the sky is there. Im sure it will be beautiful and pooh will smell like daisies.
 
It does not matter "how long ago" it was. The point is that sometimes you need to stand up for yourself, even when it seems hopeless. Otherwise you'll be a victim all your life.
It really does, because standing up for yourself with violence is an indication of generational gap and culture difference. We are becoming more civilized not less where violence is less of a response than it was say 20 or 30 yrs ago.
 
You may not see it that way. However when you are the recipient of that singular act and are getting no support from parents or school officials, frankly...you dont care what others may or may not think. Your high minded ideals arent relevant to the kid being picked on. They dont want social change...they want to walk through school hallways and not fear being picked on.

I can point to several incidents where violence was indeed a part of the solution. Large scale solution? no. Immediate solution? You bet. And when you find that ideal world, let us know what color the sky is there. Im sure it will be beautiful and pooh will smell like daisies.
I can see it that way as I'm calling upon personal experience and not just academia. I realize that everyone has had different experiences which is excellent point of learning. It does however show the different attitudes available today vs what was a significant time period ago (generational gap).

If said child being picked on wants to walk through hallways not being picked on they need to draw upon the help of everyone around them, not resort to violent altercations. We are not primitive homo-sapiens anymore.
 
It really does, because standing up for yourself with violence is an indication of generational gap and culture difference. We are becoming more civilized not less where violence is less of a response than it was say 20 or 30 yrs ago.

If I'm reading your posts correctly, you're pretty much an absolutist on this issue... non-violence is always the answer.

Am I correct, or do you allow for some exceptions?
 
Bullying... the new trendy social issue. How are we doing at addressing it?

I don't think any reasonable person would deny that bullying exists, but... are we properly addressing the issue or are we blowing it out of proportion?

I wish that this poll had multiple options. I honestly think its both being blown out of proportion and we aren't doing enough. Its being blown out of proportion in the sense that now in what may be a legitimate two sided issue between two people, one gets to play the "victim" essentially to rid him or herself of guilt and completely destroy the other person. I also think we aren't doing enough because the real bullies and and victims are often the ones that never get caught because no one speaks up.

Like personally, I've been bullied before back in middle school/elementary school. I never said anything about it to someone at school, but if I ever relatiated in anyway, I was always the one at fault. Moral of the story: Bullys make wonderful cry babies.
 
I can see it that way as I'm calling upon personal experience and not just academia. I realize that everyone has had different experiences which is excellent point of learning. It does however show the different attitudes available today vs what was a significant time period ago (generational gap).

If said child being picked on wants to walk through hallways not being picked on they need to draw upon the help of everyone around them, not resort to violent altercations. We are not primitive homo-sapiens anymore.
Not sure how connected you are with reality. School officials dont stop it even when it is drawn to their attention. In your 'perfect world' we wouldnt need law enforcement and jails either. Im sure it is a wonderful place and you go there often. In your mind.
 
I wish that this poll had multiple options. I honestly think its both being blown out of proportion and we aren't doing enough. Its being blown out of proportion in the sense that now in what may be a legitimate two sided issue between two people, one gets to play the "victim" essentially to rid him or herself of guilt and completely destroy the other person. I also think we aren't doing enough because the real bullies and and victims are often the ones that never get caught because no one speaks up.

I think you make a very good point.
 
It really does, because standing up for yourself with violence is an indication of generational gap and culture difference. We are becoming more civilized not less where violence is less of a response than it was say 20 or 30 yrs ago.

You need to realize that being "civilized" is a veneer covering a very brutal creature, we humans. It is learned behavior and it doesn't take much to strip it away either. As for violence? 20 or 30 years ago it was frowned upon too, or did you miss the part of my being suspended from school for a week simply for defending myself?

IMO your worldview is very naive, and based on limited experience in real world situations.
 
Adversity sadly builds character. Too much can kill or scar, too little can result in individuals too weak to compete. How we balance that as a society, I don't know. One of the problems with school is that we often talk about "once you are in the REAL world things are different". Meaning, life outside of school where you have to work to survive and parents aren't coddling you, etc. So do we want to have school PREPARE people for that real world, or SHELTER them from it? I get bullied every day in my chosen career, comes with the territory. How I react to it is important. At the same time, children bullied to the point of suicide...my heart breaks. Worse, even though I'm entirely confident in my parenting abilities with regards to my own child's experiences and training...what if my wife and I were to die and leave here to society to care for? I'd like those rules in place then I suppose. At the same time, I'd also like know she'd be taught those life lessons...
 
Well, for particularly vicious attacks, expulsion should always be an option. The stories I have been reading in the past 5-10 years about what kids are being expelled for it simply ridiculous. Horrible assaults continue to happen yet children are sent home for wearing certain t-shirts or accidentally bringing a butter knife to school.

I don't think education should be a right for children who are too violent or dysfunctional to avoid inflicting trauma on other students, especially when their parents are not doing their job at home. If parents want to slack off on raising their kids then they can enjoy having their child at home permanently when they attack other students. School is supposed to be a learning environment, not a battle ground. I'm all in favor of giving bullies whatever counselling they need to get over their issues, but quarantining them from harming people is just sane policy.

There's a difference between skirmishes and light physical conflicts that end up getting resolved and people move on with their lives. But some of these bullies are psycho, and the large class sizes combined with poor parenting means that the issue is being ignored.

While this solves the problem for the school, this does nothing to punish the attacker.

With physical attacks the attacker should be referred to the pólice for charges. With mental attacks, well they have no power intil the attackee gives them power.

I can't remember one day in high school worring about what anybody thought of me. I think that is an important lesson to teach especially girls these days. Thier life does not end if they are not the most popular girl in school, after all high school is temporary and it should have no effect a what somebody does afterwards. Heck, high school is the easiest part of life compared to working a real job.
 
The Wolke et al (2013) study is among such studies to state that enough has not been made against bullying. They call for a total pull out from the thinking that "Bullying is a way of life" because it causes it does most damage to the players: Bully (i.e., psychopath), victims, and the more common bully-victims (i.e., former victims "taught" to be bullies from bullies). Damage continues to the adult life with risks more 6 times to be diagnosed with a serious illness, smoke regularly, maintain a job, or develop a psychiatric disorder.



It may also be a cultural problem. I usually approach the bully with a simple question "What is a big fella like you doing around younger kids? What is your business here?" Really though, what is an older guys business with children? They should be with their peers!

References:

Wolke, D., Copeland, W. E., Angold, A., & Costello, E. J. (2013). Impact of bullying in childhood on adult health, wealth, crime, and social outcomes. Psychological Science, DOI: 10.1177/0956797613481608; Retrieved from: Far from being harmless, the effects of bullying last long into adulthood .

Has anybody seen some of the Maury Povich shows where he reunites bullies with the people that were bullied?

Yes when they were kids they suffered some pain, most of which was mental, but they bettered their lives because of it.

What would have happened to those people if they were not bullied?
 
Has anybody seen some of the Maury Povich shows where he reunites bullies with the people that were bullied?

Yes when they were kids they suffered some pain, most of which was mental, but they bettered their lives because of it.

What would have happened to those people if they were not bullied?

Well, of course Maury Povich is going to look for the ones who are beautiful, or wealthy. He isn't going to put skanky scuzzes on there. He saves those types for the "Who's your baby daddy?" shows.

Maybe in the interest of fairness, Maury should include the families of the people who were bullied, who jumped out a window.
 
I suspect that the cyber aspect is what has caused the issue to increase. Back in the day, at least you could go home and be with your own family and escape the onslaught for awhile. Now, kids can't even do that.

They could, if they had parents who didn't cede parenting to the TV and internet. Any child traumatized by cyber-bullying need only cease to log onto the internet - it soon goes away when the intended audience isn't listening/viewing.
 
They could, if they had parents who didn't cede parenting to the TV and internet. Any child traumatized by cyber-bullying need only cease to log onto the internet - it soon goes away when the intended audience isn't listening/viewing.

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