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Bullying...

How are we doing at addressing bullying?

  • We're not doing enough.

    Votes: 26 43.3%
  • We're right on track and taking appropriate measures.

    Votes: 7 11.7%
  • We're blowing it way out of proportion.

    Votes: 20 33.3%
  • Other.

    Votes: 7 11.7%

  • Total voters
    60
They ARE cowards. Anyone who feels okay about themselves does not engage in trying to beat someone else down.

I'd agree that they're USUALLY cowards, but no they're not always cowards. Psychopaths/sociopaths do exist.
 
Bullying... the new trendy social issue. How are we doing at addressing it?

I don't think any reasonable person would deny that bullying exists, but... are we properly addressing the issue or are we blowing it out of proportion?

I'm in my late 50s now and I think bullying has been an issue virtually forever - certainly it existed when I was in elementary school, but then I had three older brothers which helped provide a level of immunity.

People are bullied all through life in one form or another - bosses can bully, salespeople can bully, doctors can bully, etc. - so it's not something you can shelter people from and it's best to find ways to deal with it and learn from the experience.

I would note, however, that there was an article in one of our papers this morning about a study on children who've been bullied, which started over a decade ago, tracking them from ages 6 to some who are 26 now, and it indicated that children who were bullied are six times more likely to suffer from some type of addiction to alcohol, drugs, etc., are in lower wage jobs, suffer from depression, etc. and those who were bullies are often still very aggressive in their treatment of other people into adulthood. I just provide that for some background.

I don't have any answers - I think it's more in the news now simply because virtually everything is more in the news now, with the need to fill the 24/7 news beast.
 
I'd agree that they're USUALLY cowards, but no they're not always cowards. Psychopaths/sociopaths do exist.

You'd be hard pressed to find a child that is a sociopath. There may be symptoms but that is usually part of a greater problem.
 
Isnt that what they diagnose when kids intentionally run over kittys with lawn mowers and stuff?
You'd be hard pressed to find a child that is a sociopath. There may be symptoms but that is usually part of a greater problem.
 
I'm in my late 50s now and I think bullying has been an issue virtually forever - certainly it existed when I was in elementary school, but then I had three older brothers which helped provide a level of immunity.

People are bullied all through life in one form or another - bosses can bully, salespeople can bully, doctors can bully, etc. - so it's not something you can shelter people from and it's best to find ways to deal with it and learn from the experience.

I would note, however, that there was an article in one of our papers this morning about a study on children who've been bullied, which started over a decade ago, tracking them from ages 6 to some who are 26 now, and it indicated that children who were bullied are six times more likely to suffer from some type of addiction to alcohol, drugs, etc., are in lower wage jobs, suffer from depression, etc. and those who were bullies are often still very aggressive in their treatment of other people into adulthood. I just provide that for some background.

I don't have any answers - I think it's more in the news now simply because virtually everything is more in the news now, with the need to fill the 24/7 news beast.
I'm going to throw this out there for discussion as sort of a Devil's Advocate position. It is something that has occurred to me over the years, but I have never come to a definitive conclusion one way or another.

Is it possible that this is merely indicative of people's natural personalities and temperaments to begin with, and are pretty much unalterable?

What I mean is... there are some people who are simply hardwired to be weaker at dealing with life, and they will always be weaker at dealing with life whether they are bullied or not.
 
Isnt that what they diagnose when kids intentionally run over kittys with lawn mowers and stuff?
Sometimes; true sociopaths isn't something that is likely to appear in children. Sure there are some rare examples(usually due to PTSD & abuse), but it isn't the standard.
 
I'm going to throw this out there for discussion as sort of a Devil's Advocate position. It is something that has occurred to me over the years, but I have never come to a definitive conclusion one way or another.

Is it possible that this is merely indicative of people's natural personalities and temperaments to begin with, and are pretty much unalterable?

What I mean is... there are some people who are simply hardwired to be weaker at dealing with life, and they will always be weaker at dealing with life whether they are bullied or not.

I believe you're correct - It's certainly not a given that if you're bullied as a child you're going to be unsuccessful in life but there is some truth, in my view, to the concept that some people have personalities that don't allow them to "roll with the punches" that life throws their way and they over-think things that many people consider minor and they become too self-reflective and self-doubting, the old "I deserve to be beaten up 'cause I'm a loser" mentality.

I don't know that such people are doomed to a troubled life but they may certainly profit from some intense assistance in the art of handling the a-holes of life. As for the overly assertive ones, I think there's less likelihood of changing them in that they get a kind of adrenaline rush from the chase, the beat down, and the conquering of those they see as easy prey - that's a form of drug dependency in itself.
 
Sometimes; true sociopaths isn't something that is likely to appear in children. Sure there are some rare examples(usually due to PTSD & abuse), but it isn't the standard.

true sociopaths are born...not made.
 
That is entirely debatable and could be an interesting thread, imo.

some people are just born without a soul....the true sociopath. others are "created" due to early childhood abuse. google "reactive attachment disorder".
 
this would probably make an interesting thread.
some people are just born without a soul....the true sociopath. others are "created" due to early childhood abuse. google "reactive attachment disorder".
 
some people are just born without a soul....the true sociopath. others are "created" due to early childhood abuse. google "reactive attachment disorder".
There isn't such thing as a soul, scientifically speaking. ASPD(antisocial personality disorder: sociophathy[sic]) is something that is hard to diagnose and sociopathy [sic] has yet to be proven genetic since it is usually due to outside influence. Google DSM IV TR

I should add a moral compass is mostly learned not instinctual. Which is why it varies throughout the world so much.
 
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Bullying... the new trendy social issue. How are we doing at addressing it?

I don't think any reasonable person would deny that bullying exists, but... are we properly addressing the issue or are we blowing it out of proportion?
I checked "other". I supposed I could have checked "we're not doing enough", but my main opinion is that "we're not focusing on everything that needs to be discussed." What I mean by that is that discussions about bullying almost exclusively focus on condemning children and lamenting how horrible younger generations have become, particularly in terms of how they use technology. However, from my perspective, children are simply mimicking the behavior they see from a fair amount of the adults around them. They live in a very toxic society where disregarding people's feelings, being rude to people and being a jerk is "cool" among adults and is praised. These sorts of attitudes are pervasive in nearly every aspect of society.

In politics, concerns over other people's feelings are dismissed as "political correctness". In comedy and other forms of art, concerns over how certain groups are portrayed are disregarded by calling critics "too sensitive." Insult comedy is arguably the most pervasive form of comedy. Television shows are filled with people treating each other horribly. Then you just have the way people treat each other personally - look no further than how people on DP treat each other.

In sum, "bullying" is simply one symptom of a pretty insensitive, indifferent and cruel society. If we truly want to address it effectively, then we need to change how people treat each other throughout the entirety of society. Adults need to look at themselves and their behavior and stop pretending that it isn't a problem. Myself included. But just passing it off as a generational issue or pointing fingers at certain groups while absolving others of responsibility (which is what's happening now) is not going to work.
 
Not really. Getting his ass kicked will do the job. You meet force with greater force- to do otherwise is to concede to the bully's superiority.

Exactly! The one force superior to the muscle is the law. :) Let the bully collect garbage for a week and he will take notice. If not, there are greater punishments. ;)
 
Exactly! The one force superior to the muscle is the law. :) Let the bully collect garbage for a week and he will take notice. If not, there are greater punishments. ;)
Violence is not the answer and it seems to be very much part of the culture you grew up in.
 
I can't speak about the schools you send your girls to, but the fact is schools are very limited in what they can do in response to bullying. Very little actual bullying is physical, the majority of it is mental. It's a mental situation perpetuated by the physical differences, but there is very little physical bullying which occus.

So, if you're a school, you're very limited in how you can handle it. If I see it, I handle it. But if I don't see it, what can I do? If a child reports it, we can talk to the other child but if they deny it, you can't discipline for that. And if they just say something to another kid, without really doing much else, the school is simply limited in their responses to that situation.

I'm not going to speak on whether it's right or not, I'm simply stating a fact. You cannot suspend a kid because he or she might have said something mean to another kid.

Understandable. But there are lots of ways that kids are bullied that go above and beyond, "Sally said I'm a fatty," or anything like that. Internet bullying is really a problem - much moreso than I though until I watched this movie with my girls about cyberbullying. I was always like, "Oh just get up and walk away from the computer if it's that bad," but that was a very simplistic way to look at it. It's more than that. Computers are encompassed in kids lives these days (most of them, anyway) and bullying online is even more harsh than in person. We all know from experience that people are nastier online, and would say much worse things online, than in person. That kind of thing can be stopped, and should be stopped, but usually it's not, until it's too late.
 
Violence is not the answer and it seems to be very much part of the culture you grew up in.
There is not 'an' answer. It is a complex problem. Most bullies are bullies because they have seen it or experienced it. Where bullies dont have parents actively and positively engaged in their lives it is very difficult to 'change' the individual. At some point they will get the bully beaten out of them or they will end up in jail. A violent response is often the ONLY effective response to bullies. It doesnt alter the bully...but it does effectively end a specific act of targeting.

In a perfect world we could take the bully, the parents, and effectivive counseling and effect positive change in the individuals life. That seldom works.
 
Ted Bundy, case closed.
Little to no evidence of him having no moral compass in his young child years which would refute born a sociopath.

Ted Bundy: Conversations with a Killer would show this.
 
There is not 'an' answer. It is a complex problem. Most bullies are bullies because they have seen it or experienced it. Where bullies dont have parents actively and positively engaged in their lives it is very difficult to 'change' the individual. At some point they will get the bully beaten out of them or they will end up in jail. A violent response is often the ONLY effective response to bullies. It doesnt alter the bully...but it does effectively end a specific act of targeting.

In a perfect world we could take the bully, the parents, and effectivive counseling and effect positive change in the individuals life. That seldom works.

Evidence suggests otherwise. Violent acts against a bully in modern times have proven futile in most cases as the bullying isn't always a result of a physical altercation. There are too many psychological factors with technology that allow for a confrontation that isn't done by all sides(parents, teachers, counselors, & etc). Failure to confront the issues of the bully(by their peer groups and guardians) only result in less in your face bullying and more behind the back of the bullied person. This can be seen all over the world and in the human population, which is why "news" sites like TMZ make so much money. The hottest rumor or gossip is just another version of bullying only on a larger scale.
 
Then the principle should have manned up and handed him a business card of the lawyer the school board uses.
Then say "seeing as you have brougth lawyers into this conversation, here is the name of ours. All communication between you and the school will be handled through them. Now leave my office".

All too often it's the school board and/or the school district's lawyers who tell the principal when they will stand up and when they will back down.
 
Ted Bundy, case closed.
Not so easily case closed. Was Ted Bundy a soc or psychopath? His behaviors lean more to the psychopath. There are a LOT of people that are a tipping point away from sociopathy. Many care providers have to deal with some of the ugliest **** you can imagine on a daily basis and have to learn how to 'compartmentalize'. There is a danger when we become so good at compartmentalizing that we simply shut down the human and emotional side. Like all personality disorders there is a real and valid question as to whether or not it is innate or learned and once diagnosed, if it is possible to 'change' personality or just resist personality traits. I have met a few (but only a few) young people that could indeed be classified as a true 'sociopath' with no link to contributing trauma. Scary little ****ers.
 
Understandable. But there are lots of ways that kids are bullied that go above and beyond, "Sally said I'm a fatty," or anything like that. Internet bullying is really a problem - much moreso than I though until I watched this movie with my girls about cyberbullying. I was always like, "Oh just get up and walk away from the computer if it's that bad," but that was a very simplistic way to look at it. It's more than that. Computers are encompassed in kids lives these days (most of them, anyway) and bullying online is even more harsh than in person. We all know from experience that people are nastier online, and would say much worse things online, than in person. That kind of thing can be stopped, and should be stopped, but usually it's not, until it's too late.

I suspect that the cyber aspect is what has caused the issue to increase. Back in the day, at least you could go home and be with your own family and escape the onslaught for awhile. Now, kids can't even do that.
 
my brothers always joke that I am one step away from becoming "Dexter"
 
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