View Poll Results: any belief, any lack of belief and any rejection of belief to constitute a religion

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  • No

    27 96.43%
  • Yes

    1 3.57%
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Thread: Any belief, any lack of belief and any rejection of belief to constitute a religion

  1. #21
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    Re: Any belief, any lack of belief and any rejection of belief to constitute a religi

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    I just want to get a clear picture on where people stand after it's been argued that any belief, any lack of belief and any rejection of belief constitutes a religion.
    I don't think it always does but it can. I do recall the federal courts once declared atheism as a religion in granting equal rights as other faith-based groups at a prison somewhere.

    I think most thinking people believe something. In my opinion once that belief also engages in association with others of like beliefs and activism in some form, it might meet the criteria of being religious....maybe. I also have a personal definition that it often has little to nothing to do with God as its adherents often in practice substitute their group for God, despite possibly denying they are doing so.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

  2. #22
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    Re: Any belief, any lack of belief and any rejection of belief to constitute a religi

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    This Thread. Later pages.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...-religion.html

    Fair enough. I was making a beer/hooligan joke.
    That post just seemed the best for noting about spirituality, but there were other possibilities.

    Skimed the first few pages, but with over 50, didn't bother to go through the whole thing. I would say that athism is a belief, although I am on the line as to whether or not it's a belief system. Not a religion though. It just has people who are very religious about their non-religiousness.

  3. #23
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    Re: Any belief, any lack of belief and any rejection of belief to constitute a religi

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    I don't think it always does but it can. I do recall the federal courts once declared atheism as a religion in granting equal rights as other faith-based groups at a prison somewhere.
    Wasn't that more to ensure no discrimination happened on lack of religion? It was probably just easier to throw it in for legal writing sake.

    I think most thinking people believe something. In my opinion once that belief also engages in association with others of like beliefs and activism in some form, it might meet the criteria of being religious....maybe.
    What constitutes something? "Association with others of like beliefs and activism in some form" means alot of things can be religion. MEAT Clubs or Cooking/Culinary Clubs on high schools who share a love of meat/other foods and community service would be religions.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  4. #24
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    Re: Any belief, any lack of belief and any rejection of belief to constitute a religi

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I've noticed two distinct differences in atheists. One version seems to state the obvious that there's no observable proof of a supreme being and the other seems angry at anyone who believes different. Sort of the polar opposite of bible thumpers.
    The latter probably comes mostly from growing up with bible thumpers. I grew up in the Bible Belt, in a city with several very large, very active, very fundamentalist Southern Baptist congregations. They witness everywhere. You can't make it from your car to the curb without some little jerk on your back, and they'll scream and rant and just ooze derision and contempt if you say, "No thank you, I'm not a Christian". After taking it a few times, you start turning around and telling them to **** off.

    The constant barrage of hostility from those people leave others who grew up in that kind of an environment convinced at all Christians are that way. After all, all the ones they've ever seen are.

    I was very hostile and aggressive towards people evangelizing for that reason, until I moved out of the Bible Belt and found a different breed of religious people. Basically, hate breeds hate, and courtesy breeds courtesy.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

  5. #25
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    Re: Any belief, any lack of belief and any rejection of belief to constitute a religi

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Wasn't that more to ensure no discrimination happened on lack of religion? It was probably just easier to throw it in for legal writing sake.
    If I recall the inmates themselves were claiming their atheism was a religion, not something arbitrarily assigned by the courts. The courts only said, okay if you insist.

    What constitutes something? "Association with others of like beliefs and activism in some form" means alot of things can be religion. MEAT Clubs or Cooking/Culinary Clubs on high schools who share a love of meat/other foods and community service would be religions.
    That's why I said maybe. I personally think if the devotion to the group and its precepts take on cult-like characteristics, I'd start to wonder.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

  6. #26
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    Re: Any belief, any lack of belief and any rejection of belief to constitute a religi

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Where are you getting that argument from?


    Part of religion is a spirituality. All religions have a spirituality but not everyone with a spirituality has a religion.


    While I've heard this a few times, most of what I hear in reguards to atheism and religion, is the religious and evangelical like behavior of some athiest as they "preach" their non-belief mentality. I personally find it funny as they try to convince people against religion with a fervor passing that of many of the religious.

    I'm going to disagree with you that there is no observable proof and say that more accurately that there is no reproducable proof. i.e. there is no proof that is anything more than eyewitness, at least when you don't automatically accept the premise that God (whichever you might choose) is behind everything.
    The argument is ridiculous...and nothing short of a troll/bait/flame thread.

    Not sure how "all" other atheist deal with their atheism, but as an atheist and from my observations...I can only tell you that whoever "preached their atheism with the goal of converting someone" was indeed a very immature or naive atheist.

    Most atheists...as I've stated a number of times now since these ridiculous threads have raised their ugly heads...gods simply don't compute in the minds of atheists. There is nothing to ponder, consider or otherwise dwell on any form of entities, which are supernatural.

    What I do grasp is that some theist try to incorporate the word "belief" as in "absence of belief" or "lack of belief" as a BELIEF in and of itself. NONSENSE.

    Once again...

    Atheists don't have to avoid having any conscious thoughts or need to ponder the existences of supernatural deities such as gods, ghosts, devils, demons, etc...because THEY DON'T EXIST IN OUR MINDS.

  7. #27
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    Re: Any belief, any lack of belief and any rejection of belief to constitute a religi

    The word "belief" has been twisted beyond all recognition. It does not mean any opinion. It does not mean any theological opinion. It means trust. Religious belief is nothing more than trusting your parents and preachers when they tell you about whatever they're telling you. That's all it is. Not trusting those people, because they are not trustworthy and the things they say are nonsense, is not a belief.

    Also "preaching" atheists are not preaching in any religious sort of way. They're concerned with the political and social ramifications of religions exercising power. None of us would care about attacking anyone's religious ideas if they could leave others well enough alone.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  8. #28
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    Re: Any belief, any lack of belief and any rejection of belief to constitute a religi

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    This idea that atheism is a religion comes from certain theists who insist on putting a label they're familiar with on a philosophy that is completely alien to them. If it makes them feel better, who cares? I'm comfortable with my lack of belief. Let them call it whatever they want. It changes nothing to this fundamental aspect of my character.
    The real reason they do it, redefining words like "religion" and "faith", among others, is so that when people get on them for believing ridiculous things, they can turn around and say "see? *EVERYONE* does it so you can't criticize us!" It's fundamentally dishonest, but hey, it's religion.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  9. #29
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    Re: Any belief, any lack of belief and any rejection of belief to constitute a religi

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I've noticed two distinct differences in atheists. One version seems to state the obvious that there's no observable proof of a supreme being and the other seems angry at anyone who believes different. Sort of the polar opposite of bible thumpers.
    I think you're probably mistaking the intent. It's not that anyone is angry at people who believe differently, they're angry at people who believe utterly stupid things for which there is no evidence, and their absurd beliefs are harming the advancement of the human species. It has nothing to do with believing something different, but in believing something absurdly false.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  10. #30
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    Re: Any belief, any lack of belief and any rejection of belief to constitute a religi

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I agree it's completely obnoxious to tell anyone what to believe, one way or the other. Even if there was readily available proof for everyone that there was a supreme being it wouldn't necessarily make you believe that Being was wishing you benevolence. I think how you live your life is a greater testimony towards what you believe than any worshiping, mouth service or plethora of good deeds.
    Um... no it's not. That's ridiculous. That's like saying it's obnoxious to tell school children that believing 1+1=5 is wrong. Of course it's not. There is a reality that we all share. You are entitled to your own beliefs and opinions, you are not entitled to your own facts.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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