conserv.pat15 said:
Lie 1.) "We've never been stay the course."
When was this quote? What was the context of this quote? The answers to these questions would help.
When was this quote? Not long after he said "stay the course" about 1000 times to describe his policy in Iraq, that's when. Perhaps you can enlighten me on why this is
not a lie, because it quite obviously contradicts his past statements.
Bush's New Tack Steers Clear of 'Stay the Course' - washingtonpost.com
conserv.pat15 said:
Lie 2.) "We do not torture."
Can you site an order from Bush to torture?
Yeah, just search google for "waterboarding." You must not have followed that whole debacle very closely to be asking that. Senator McCain wanted to push through legislation that would restrict interrogation techniques to the guidelines layed out in the Army field manual.
McCain Detainee Amendment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Dick Cheney begged Congress to let the CIA be exempt from that bill.
Cheney Plan Exempts CIA From Bill Barring Abuse of Detainees
When the bill was passed (without the CIA exemption), Bush issued a signing statement that basically made himself exempt from it.
"The signing statement with the
McCain Detainee Amendment, prohibiting cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment of detainees in U.S. custody attracted controversy:
The Executive Branch shall construe [the torture ban] in a manner consistent with the constitutional authority of the President to supervise the unitary Executive Branch and as Commander in Chief and consistent with the constitutional limitations on the judicial power.
This statement specifically refers to a
unitary executive theory, under which the President asserts broad authority to use his independent judgment to interpret and apply the law. The President has with the signing statement to the McCain Detainee Amendment reserved his authority to challenge parts of the law passed by Congress"
Signing statement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I think anyone who considers all that and still believes "we do not torture" is not a lie has a real problem forming obvious conclusions from basic premises.
conserv.pat15 said:
Lie 3.) The administration acted on the best available intelligence regarding Iraq's WMD program.
This is not a lie. How is this a lie?
Already answered in this thread by Simon W. Moon.
from
http://www.debatepolitics.com/archiv...-evidence.html (Bush Lied: The Evidence)
http://www.debatepolitics.com/archiv...tml#post145256 (Bush Lied: The Evidence)
http://www.debatepolitics.com/archiv...tml#post145258 (Bush Lied: The Evidence)
conserv.pat15 said:
ie 4.) Muhammod Atta's trip to Prague was "pretty well confirmed"
This is not a lie. How is this a lie?
Atta's trip to Prague was never confirmed. The Czech government told the Bush administration from the beginning that the one piece of intelligence that alluded to this was unreliable, and so did the CIA, FBI, and the Defense Department.
"On September 21st, 2001, [George] Tenet told the President, "
Our Prague office is skeptical about the report. It just doesn't add up." Tenet also indicated that other evidence the CIA was able to find, including credit card and telephone records, made such a meeting highly unlikely."
"According to the
January 2003 CIA report
Iraqi Support for Terrorism, "
the most reliable reporting to date casts doubt on this possibility" that such a meeting occurred."
"According to columnist
Robert Novak,
Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld "confirmed published reports that there is no evidence placing the presumed leader of the terrorist attacks in the Czech capital."
The Czech police chief, Jiří Kolář, "said
there were no documents showing that Atta visited Prague at any time" in 2001
Atta in Prague - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
But here's what Dick Cheney had to say about it in December 2001 (AFTER George Tenet said it doesn't add up):
"Cheney had claimed: “
It’s been pretty well confirmed that [Atta] did go to Prague and he did meet with a senior official of the Iraqi intelligence service in Czechoslovakia last April, several months before the attack."
Dems Allege Intel Community Shields White House - Newsweek Terror Watch - MSNBC.com
conserv.pat15 said:
Lie 5.) "The reason I keep insisting that there was a connection between Iraq and al'Qaeda is because there was a connection between Iraq and al'Qaeda."
This is not a lie. How is this a lie? There was a connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda.
Right. About as much of a connection as there is between the U.S. and North Korea. Maybe this isn't a blatent lie, but it was blatently misleading to say the least. Any "connection" worth mentioning in an effort to bolster a case for war should be a collaborative "connection", which did
not exist.
conserv.pat15 said:
Lie 6.) We cannot wait to attack Hussein because he's liable to put a mushroom cloud over a major American city.
This is not a lie. Intelligence at the time showed evidence that Saddam was reconstituting his nuclear program.
You mean with aluminum centrifuge tubes that weren't even fit for nuclear weapons in the first place?
"As the only physical evidence the United States could brandish of Mr. Hussein's revived nuclear ambitions, they [tubes] gave credibility to the apocalyptic imagery invoked by President Bush and his advisers. The tubes were "only really suited for nuclear weapons programs," Condoleezza Rice, the president's national security adviser, explained on CNN on Sept. 8, 2002. "We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."
But almost a year before, Ms. Rice's staff had been told that the government's foremost nuclear experts seriously doubted that the tubes were for nuclear weapons, according to four officials at the Central Intelligence Agency and two senior administration officials, all of whom spoke on condition of anonymity. The experts, at the Energy Department, believed the tubes were likely intended for small artillery rockets."
The New York Times > International > Middle East > How the White House Embraced Disputed Arms Intelligence
conserv.pat15 said:
Lie 7.) They hate us because of our freedoms.
This is not a lie. How is this a lie?
Because that's not why they hate us.
"Bin Laden issued a
Fatwa in 1996 titled "Declaration of War against the Mulvehills
Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places."
"On
23 February 1998 Al-Quds Al-Arabi published another fatwa signed by bin Laden,
Ayman al-Zawahiri, and others. The ruling listed two grievances;
the U.S. occupation of the Arabian Peninsula, and U.S. support for Israel."
Bin laden said in a 1998 interview: "The International Islamic Front for Jihad against the U.S. and Israel has issued a crystal-clear fatwa calling on the Islamic nation to carry on jihad
aimed at liberating holy sites."
Fatawa of Osama bin Laden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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http://www.debatepolitics.com/forum-rules/505-forum-rules.html#post1402Despite what happens (or fails to happen) with other folks you are not released you from your personal responsibility to abide by the forum rules.
