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Should Daycare Be Subsidized

Should Daycare Be Subsidized?

  • Yes, Should Be Fixed Price (Quebec)

    Votes: 2 5.0%

  • Yes, Means-Tested (France)

    Votes: 8 20.0%

  • No, It Should Not Be Subsidized

    Votes: 30 75.0%
  • Total voters
    40
CanadaJohn said:
As a resident of Toronto, I can defend us and say that we're not idiots - we love our city, it's the best city in the world - it is, however, also one of the most expensive places to live on the planet.
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Then nobody ought to whine about it, you made the choice to live there, you deal with the consequences. Someone tell that to Observer92.
 
0bserver92 said:
They practically pay 10x the cost for housing because Toronto is where the jobs are and is the 4th largest city in North America. If there is almost anything going on in Canada it's probably in Toronto or has something to do with it.
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Is it rational or irrational to, say, accept a job that pays less than the cost of your housing?

Put another way, is it rational or irrational to reside in housing that costs more than the amount of money you make?

Where you live geographically, what housing you purchase, what job you will perform, at what rate of pay... these are all choices individuals are free to make. People are even free to make irrational choices, for the most part.
 
Cephus said:
So like I said, morons. And you're basing your entire argument on a single extreme. Anyone who doesn't want to pay that much just has to move. You just don't bother mentioning that you're using the extremes as the entire basis for your argument.

Blatant dishonesty, it's the liberal way.
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Anyone who doesn't want to pay has to move and probably become unemployed or earn much much less and contributes much less or nothing to the economy.
 
Cephus said:
From personal experience, we used to pay about $800 a month for two kids, that's $400 per kid, or about $4800 a year. This is what happens when liberals cherry pick absurd numbers to make their idiotic arguments seem more reasonable.
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400 a month per child sounds about right. Maybe they just hate kids up in the "great white north".
 
polgara said:
CJ, doesn't that come up for a vote regularly? Why do they wish to secede? It sounds like they haven't figured out what they want! :shock:
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A loud minority will always want to secede, not realizing they'd be nowhere as an independent country - perhaps they hope for economic alliance with the US - are you looking for another state to suck on the federal teat??
 
Neomalthusian said:
Is it rational or irrational to, say, accept a job that pays less than the cost of your housing?

Put another way, is it rational or irrational to reside in housing that costs more than the amount of money you make?

Where you live geographically, what housing you purchase, what job you will perform, at what rate of pay... these are all choices individuals are free to make. People are even free to make irrational choices, for the most part.
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The couple in the article like they said was fine and they quite a bit of extra income until the mother's maternity leave ended and they had to send their kid to daycare.
 
Gipper said:
400 a month per child sounds about right. Maybe they just hate kids up in the "great white north".
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No, we've just discovered that he's taking the most extreme example he can find and pretending it applies everywhere. It just demonstrates the extreme disconnect between liberalism and honesty.
 
0bserver92 said:
The couple in the article like they said was fine and they quite a bit of extra income until the mother's maternity leave ended and they had to send their kid to daycare.
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Did you reply to the wrong post? This has nothing to do with what I asked and said in the post you quoted.
 
Cephus said:
Then nobody ought to whine about it, you made the choice to live there, you deal with the consequences. Someone tell that to Observer92.
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I'm not complaining about it and not too many people here are complaining about it. We have, here in Ontario, started to connect daycare to elementary schools and moved to have full day kindergarten starting for 4 yr olds so, in effect, in many schools you can start sending your kid at about 1, pay for daycare until 4 and then it's school with before and after school care for the kids when you drop them off and pick them up. It's one of the main reasons why our province's collective debt has more than doubled in the past 10 years of liberal government rule.
 
0bserver92 said:
Anyone who doesn't want to pay has to move and probably become unemployed or earn much much less and contributes much less or nothing to the economy.
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So you're telling us that nobody outside of Toronto has a job? Seriously? Now you're not only shoving both feet in your mouth, you're working your way up to your knees.
 
CanadaJohn said:
A loud minority will always want to secede, not realizing they'd be nowhere as an independent country - perhaps they hope for economic alliance with the US - are you looking for another state to suck on the federal teat??
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Well with each generation the number of those who want to secede gets fewer and fewer. Even in the last election the ridings that voted for the Liberals were ridings with a lot of younger people in them even the ones with universities. It was the ridings with a older population expect Sherbrokke (Jean Charest's) that voted PQ.
 
0bserver92 said:
They practically pay 10x the cost for housing because Toronto is where the jobs are and is the 4th largest city in North America. If there is almost anything going on in Canada it's probably in Toronto or has something to do with it.
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So, in America, if you don't live in New York, Los Angeles, or Chicago you're just an unemployed piece of crap that lives there because you have kids and can't afford a "big city".

Damn, I'm learning so many things on this thread.
 
Cephus said:
So you're telling us that nobody outside of Toronto has a job? Seriously? Now you're not only shoving both feet in your mouth, you're working your way up to your knees.
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No the unemployment outside of Toronto is just higher and for the professions we want to people wot work in like finance and engineering, are all located in Toronto.
 
0bserver92 said:
No the unemployment outside of Toronto is just higher and for the professions we want to people wot work in like finance and engineering, are all located in Toronto.
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Sounds like you live in an entirely screwed up country. Maybe you should get the liberals out of power, it can only help.
 
Gipper said:
400 a month per child sounds about right. Maybe they just hate kids up in the "great white north".
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It's not an unreasonable amount. My twin nephews are 33 now, and when they were 1 to 5 years old, 30 yrs ago, my brother and sister-in-law sent them to "play school" every day so my sister-in-law could go back to teaching. It cost them $1,000 each, per month, for them to attend the program which was a combination of "baby sitting" and education, prepping them for school. This cost them almost as much as my sister-in-law was netting from teaching, but she wanted to teach and the program was good for the kids. It's called sacrificing for your offspring and that's what responsible parents do.
 
Gipper said:
So, in America, if you don't live in New York, Los Angeles, or Chicago you're just an unemployed piece of crap that lives there because you have kids and can't afford a "big city".

Damn, I'm learning so many things on this thread.
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Well the U.S. is more spread out than Canada's population which congregated in places like Toronto. Ontario has just under half of the population of the country.
 
0bserver92 said:
Well the U.S. is more spread out than Canada's population which congregated in places like Toronto. Ontario has just under half of the population of the country.
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And how's that working out for you?
 
Cephus said:
Sounds like you live in an entirely screwed up country. Maybe you should get the liberals out of power, it can only help.
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You do knwo the Conservatives run the country right and you can't change Canada's geography and demographics it happens that Ontario and Toronto specifically hols most of the population of Canada.
 
CanadaJohn said:
A loud minority will always want to secede, not realizing they'd be nowhere as an independent country - perhaps they hope for economic alliance with the US - are you looking for another state to suck on the federal teat??
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Not that I know of, but like you posted on another thread, it wouldn't surprise me! :mrgreen:
 
CanadaJohn said:
It's not an unreasonable amount. My twin nephews are 33 now, and when they were 1 to 5 years old, 30 yrs ago, my brother and sister-in-law sent them to "play school" every day so my sister-in-law could go back to teaching. It cost them $1,000 each, per month, for them to attend the program which was a combination of "baby sitting" and education, prepping them for school. This cost them almost as much as my sister-in-law was netting from teaching, but she wanted to teach and the program was good for the kids. It's called sacrificing for your offspring and that's what responsible parents do.
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Seriously, I'm getting a degree in early childhood education and heading up there to work. I'd clean up.

I could teach a couple dozen kids and make what a CFO at a mid-sized company makes.
 
0bserver92 said:
Should we subsidize the cost of daycare? I was reading a Globe and Mail article (which I can't link to because of the 10 article limit) which talked about the cost of daycare. It was talking about how daycare can cost you 20,000$+ a year thus being a big hit to new families even those making 100,000$+. The couple in the article from Toronto said they spend 13$/day on daycare (fully licensed, nothing fancy daycare) for their child while parents in Quebec can register at government subsidized daycares for 7$/day and there is a waiting list. In France they subsidize daycare and it is means-tested with the lowest price being 50 cents and the highest I think was 13 euros, a day of course. I personally support subsidized daycare as it enables both parents to have successful careers but it is expensive and hard on even the most successful new families, it is not a case of parents that need to make more money or wait but it is just unaffordable and the price needs to be brought down. It also has the benefit of encouraging parents to have more children because they can afford to especially in Quebec where immigration is a problem. I support means-testing as it enables everyone to afford daycare and it avoids waiting lists but Quebec is a nice compromise between the two.
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NO!!!!!!!!! You're undercutting my babysitting market. :'(
 
0bserver92 said:
Well the U.S. is more spread out than Canada's population which congregated in places like Toronto. Ontario has just under half of the population of the country.
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wow and Canada has what, like less than a tenth of the people we do? With all the natural resources you've got you should sell it and pay for everyone to live like kings
 
Gipper said:
Seriously, I'm getting a degree in early childhood education and heading up there to work. I'd clean up.

I could teach a couple dozen kids and make what a CFO at a mid-sized company makes.
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If you have the facilities, can hire the teachers and childcare workers, can afford the insurance/accountants/lawyers to meet government regulations, you'd make a tidy profit in a "playschool" type operation. If you're talking about opening your house for a dozen kids, don't expect the big bucks.

And just as a word of advice, I'd get a different face-shot for your promotional brochure - the one you have here would scare away most parents with money.
 
CanadaJohn said:
If you have the facilities, can hire the teachers and childcare workers, can afford the insurance/accountants/lawyers to meet government regulations, you'd make a tidy profit in a "playschool" type operation. If you're talking about opening your house for a dozen kids, don't expect the big bucks.

And just as a word of advice, I'd get a different face-shot for your promotional brochure - the one you have here would scare away most parents with money.
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You've seen my pic?
 
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