View Poll Results: Should Daycare Be Subsidized?

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  • Yes, Should Be Fixed Price (Quebec)

    3 5.77%
  • Yes, Means-Tested (France)

    9 17.31%
  • No, It Should Not Be Subsidized

    40 76.92%
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Thread: Should Daycare Be Subsidized

  1. #421
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    Re: Should Daycare Be Subsidized

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    How is helping them by having welfare limits, retraining, and daycare during that time treating people like needy children?
    Because it's provided to them by the external on the basis of their need. Only children are supposed to be entitled to their needs being met for them, and with that of course comes a lack of independence (they're not allowed to make their own decisions). Once you're old enough to make your own decisions, you're considered old enough to go out and meet your own needs. They go hand in hand.

    You want the poor to be regarded as society's children just because they have needs. That is not a decent way to treat the poor, even though you allege it's with the best of intentions.

    The current welfare does that and that's NOT what I'm advocating. You're way throws them to the wolves by removing all safety nets.
    By this rationale, all 18-year olds are "thrown to the wolves" because we've decided 18 is the age of /adulthood/majority.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 08-13-13 at 02:38 PM.

  2. #422
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    Re: Should Daycare Be Subsidized

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Well, I live in the real world where everyone has children, those who can least afford it having the most. Now, if you favor mandatory abortions and birth control for the stupid, poor and genetically unfit...you may be living in the wrong decade, and the wrong country. Adolf went thataway.
    If you've demonstrated you're too incompetent to care for yourself such that you need society to come to the rescue, then you've more-than-demonstrated you are too incompetent to become a child's guardian. And given we have charged the state with responsibility to rescue children from unfit environments, it makes rational sense to condition welfare with birth control regimens, and that has nothing whatsoever to do with Adolf Hitler.

  3. #423
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    Re: Should Daycare Be Subsidized

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Well, I live in the real world where everyone has children, those who can least afford it having the most. Now, if you favor mandatory abortions and birth control for the stupid, poor and genetically unfit...you may be living in the wrong decade, and the wrong country. Adolf went thataway.
    We also live in a world where people murder each other, that doesn't mean we should make it an acceptable thing. We hold people accountable for their actions. Those who make bad decisions, and there are some decisions that are both life-changing and life-ruining, ought to be responsible for the consequences of those choices.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  4. #424
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    Re: Should Daycare Be Subsidized

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Except that's far too simplistic. Society wants people who can afford to have children and can afford to properly care for their children to have children. Those who cannot need not apply.
    So you are advocating the successful having children and those who are unable to care for themselves avoid having others they can't care for either? I'm afraid in today's world that will make you some kind of "ist". Not sure which one, but your common sense will likely make you a target of the willfully weak.

  5. #425
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    Re: Should Daycare Be Subsidized

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    If society wants people to have children and wants those kids to be properly cared for, then subsidies for daycare should be provided. I think the anti-abortion folks can lead the way by writing out the first checks.
    Society doesn't want YOU (by YOU I mean anyone who thinks it is someone else's responsibility to raise their children for them) to have kids, they want productive people to have kids. Government wants you to have kids. Big difference. Government benefits from welfare babies because they do it with other people's money. Society doesn't need the burden, or for that matter the offspring of the obviously needy.

  6. #426
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    Re: Should Daycare Be Subsidized

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Well, I live in the real world where everyone has children, those who can least afford it having the most. Now, if you favor mandatory abortions and birth control for the stupid, poor and genetically unfit...you may be living in the wrong decade, and the wrong country. Adolf went thataway.
    The bolded part is very telling. I have a customer who has a lot of tattoos, one I particularly like is the bullet hole in the top of his foot. He got that one after another run in with the law, he put it there to remind himself of his propensity to shoot himself in the foot.

    "Those who can least afford it having the most (children)". This sounds like the description of a series of bad decisions to me. Should we keep bandaging the foot every time they shoot it, or teach them not to shoot themselves in the foot? I've stopped shooting myself and am teaching gun safety to others... both literally and figuratively. Allowing people to be subsidized while they continue to make poor decisions would be bad enough, what our government is doing (and you appear to be agreeing with) is rewarding them for bad decisions because they (government) benefit from it. The major problem here is where the "help" comes from. Those of us who give of ourselves to help others expect results. Those who use other people's money to "help" don't want to work themselves out of a job. There are benefits to being able to buy power with other people's money. Anywhere outside of government buying stuff with other people's money would be called "theft" and where I live it might get you shot. Perhaps we need to start shooting the thieves.

  7. #427
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    Re: Should Daycare Be Subsidized

    Quote Originally Posted by tech30528 View Post
    So you are advocating the successful having children and those who are unable to care for themselves avoid having others they can't care for either? I'm afraid in today's world that will make you some kind of "ist". Not sure which one, but your common sense will likely make you a target of the willfully weak.
    I don't give a damn what it makes me sound like, I espouse responsibility, period. That's the cornerstone of conservatism. If you don't espouse that, you've got the wrong lean selected.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  8. #428
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    Re: Should Daycare Be Subsidized

    We're really looking to absolve people of pretty much all responsibility, aren't we? We're not even expected to use forethought and determine if we can even afford kids anymore before having them.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  9. #429
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    Re: Should Daycare Be Subsidized

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I don't give a damn what it makes me sound like, I espouse responsibility, period. That's the cornerstone of conservatism. If you don't espouse that, you've got the wrong lean selected.
    Careful now. You have "Slightly Conservative" selected as your lean, and there's nothing 'slight' about you or your collective views.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  10. #430
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    Re: Should Daycare Be Subsidized

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Careful now. You have "Slightly Conservative" selected as your lean, and there's nothing 'slight' about you or your collective views.
    It's slight to differentiate me from the religious retards on the far right. Philosophically, I'm secular conservative all the way.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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