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Non consentual sex is not rape

Is non concentual sex always rape

  • Yes, non concensual sex is always rape

    Votes: 47 79.7%

  • No, non concensual sex is not always rape

    Votes: 12 20.3%
  • Total voters
    59
Dragonfly said:
Really?

You sure that's what you meant to say?
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Justified by society. Context is everything. But admittedly, it may not be clear at first glance.
 
ChrisL said:
Well since we are well into the 100s in terms of posts, how about you direct me to the post by post number, or just quote it for me please. :)
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Post #110.
 
Dragonfly said:
Oh lookie.

An attempt at a complete deflection and end-run around and/or away from actually answering any of my questions.

Nice.

Now, how's about you try again.

Is anyone who has ever had sex with a legally drunk person a rapist?
Is everyone who ever had sex while being legally drunk been raped?

Always.
Without question.
Black and white.
Always.
Regardless of any other extenuating circumstances.
Regardless of situation.

If you're legally drunk and having sex you're being raped.
If you're having sex with a legally drunk person, you are raping that person.

That's your position on this without question?
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Stop being so aggressive. Post #110 answers this question.
 
Phys251 said:
Well, in that case, neither party is capable of giving consent. What happens next, legally, you tell me.

By the way. All this time we've been assuming it's a straight couple. Or a couple in the first place. What if one of those assumptions does not hold?
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Lol! This is really funny! So what would you suggest? That both parties get arrested for raping each other while drunk? Ridiculous!

What the heck difference does the sexual orientation of the people involved matter?
 
ChrisL said:
Lol! This is really funny! So what would you suggest? That both parties get arrested for raping each other while drunk? Ridiculous!

What the heck difference does the sexual orientation of the people involved matter?
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I intentionally left the question open. All I said was, neither party is capable of giving consent. I honestly have no clue how the law should proceed from there.

Any route that is chosen leads to trouble. Let them both off the hook? Great, all a man needs to do to rape a drunk woman is get toasted himself. Punish the man? Okay, so the standard holds against him but not her. Punish them both? What is this, the Dark Ages?
 
Phys251 said:
I intentionally left the question open. All I said was, neither party is capable of giving consent. I honestly have no clue how the law should proceed from there.

Any route that is chosen leads to trouble. Let them both off the hook? Great, all a man needs to do to rape a drunk woman is get toasted himself. Punish the man? Okay, so the standard holds against him but not her. Punish them both? What is this, the Dark Ages?
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You think only men seduce drunk women? Women have been known to seduce drunk men into bed too. Would you think the woman should be charged with rape in such instances?
 
ChrisL said:
You think only men seduce drunk women? Women have been known to seduce drunk men into bed too. Would you think the woman should be charged with rape in such instances?
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I wasn't aware that the number of female rapists was anywhere near the number of male rapists. :roll:
 
Phys251 said:
I wasn't aware that the number of female rapists was anywhere near the number of male rapists. :roll:
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Does that really matter?
 
Phys251 said:
In context, yeah, it does.
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No, it doesn't. Rape is rape. Babies don't get raped "often" either, doesn't make it any less of a horrendous crime though.
 
When people try to make every situation nothing more than black and white they become very dangerous.

Same kind of people suspend children from school for having a pop tart that "resembles" a gun.

It's just crazy.
 
Mr X said:
Sorry, you're wrong.
1.)The legal definition of rape is non-consensual sex.
2.) Violence is not a requirement for it to be classed as rape.
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1.) false
2.) true
 
Dragonfly said:
When people try to make every situation nothing more than black and white they become very dangerous.

Same kind of people suspend children from school for having a pop tart that "resembles" a gun.

It's just crazy.
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So you believe that some rape is okay?

If you find the question absurd, then consider that I have the same reaction to your continual misrepresentation of my position.
 
Phys251 said:
So you believe that some rape is okay?

If you find the question absurd, then consider that I have the same reaction to your continual misrepresentation of my position.
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You still have not addressed the question as to what you would like to see happen if both parties are drunk.
 
Phys251 said:
So you believe that some rape is okay?

If you find the question absurd, then consider that I have the same reaction to your continual misrepresentation of my position.
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Yet again, you refuse to answer questions about specifics. It's getting tiresome and irritating.

Answer the questions that have been posed to you multiple times.

Not one single person here is saying rape is okay. Not one.

The question completely revolves around what defines rape, and when.

As I see it, your definition of rape is when-ever someone says they've been raped.
Based on that, you'd gladly sentence anyone accused of rape to prison or even death without benefit of trial.
Automatically guilty of all charges. Period.

In your eyes any human that says they've been raped is telling the truth, and any human that says such a claim is not true is a lying feces filled scum of an animal and deserves no sympathy or even a day in court.

Stop avoiding any and all questions regarding your previous statements, and stop trying to deflect the conversation towards your absurd and asinine twists around what other people are trying to say.

Are you going to answer our questions or not?

If my wife and I are both drunk, and we have sex, who's the rapist and who's the victim of rape?
Who gets charged with what?

If I've been drunk and my wife hasn't, and we've had sex, did she rape me?
What charges should be levied against her?
 
Why is it that when rape topics come up some people always assume the woman was drunk, therefore it wasn't rape. The majority is overlooking the fact that there's been 61 accusations in a 7month(or slightly more) time frame. Why are we focusing on alcohol?
 
herenow1 said:
Why is it that when rape topics come up some people always assume the woman was drunk, therefore it wasn't rape. The majority is overlooking the fact that there's been 61 accusations in a 7month(or slightly more) time frame. Why are we focusing on alcohol?
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Because like it or not, in college, that's an over-riding possibility.

Especially if the police are not immediately called.
Especially if there's a need to define what happened as something other than rape.
Something like "non-consensual".

What we're discussing is the potential reasons why a rape has not occurred.

Not one single person is saying that's what happened.

We have no facts to actually go on do we?

It's all speculation.

One of the very prominent reasons why the incidents might not be "rape" is due to alcohol or drug consumption by one or both parties involved.

Nobody here is defending rapists. Relax.

Take a breath and look at the logical possibilities as to why they might NOT be rapes.
 
herenow1 said:
Why is it that when rape topics come up some people always assume the woman was drunk, therefore it wasn't rape. The majority is overlooking the fact that there's been 61 accusations in a 7month(or slightly more) time frame. Why are we focusing on alcohol?
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61 complaints out of 14000 students. That really isn't a lot. And it was said that there was alcohol involved in most of these cases. Does this mean that none of them were some guy (or even perhaps girl) forcing themselves onto a drunk girl or doing it with a girl who was passed out? Of course not. It is likely that at least some of them were that way. But it is also likely that a good number of them were truly a drunken mistake rather than actual rape or possibly even a scorned girl looking for revenge. Like many have said, there are many times when girls may feel differently about a situation than the guy and what do you do when they were both drunk and there was a true misunderstanding? They're getting affectionate and the guy goes for it, but the girl starts wanting to say no but never actually does or feels like it is too much but doesn't say anything during the act. Is it drunken rape or simply regret? Because this situation could be treated as rape in the military, so there is every chance that others may see it as rape too and even that she might report it as a rape. But it really wouldn't be if the guy didn't actually know that the girl didn't want to have sex.
 
Dragonfly said:
Yet again, you refuse to answer questions about specifics. It's getting tiresome and irritating.

Answer the questions that have been posed to you multiple times.

Not one single person here is saying rape is okay. Not one.

The question completely revolves around what defines rape, and when.

As I see it, your definition of rape is when-ever someone says they've been raped.
Based on that, you'd gladly sentence anyone accused of rape to prison or even death without benefit of trial.
Automatically guilty of all charges. Period.

In your eyes any human that says they've been raped is telling the truth, and any human that says such a claim is not true is a lying feces filled scum of an animal and deserves no sympathy or even a day in court.

Stop avoiding any and all questions regarding your previous statements, and stop trying to deflect the conversation towards your absurd and asinine twists around what other people are trying to say.

Are you going to answer our questions or not?

If my wife and I are both drunk, and we have sex, who's the rapist and who's the victim of rape?
Who gets charged with what?

If I've been drunk and my wife hasn't, and we've had sex, did she rape me?
What charges should be levied against her?
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I just love it when people say something stupid like "so you believe rape is okay?" That is so ridiculous. :roll:
 
babilfish said:
No where in your link is it implied that drunk people cannot give consent.
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I always have two questions for the premise that drunk people cannot legally consent.

First, at what point is a person actually drunk and not just "tipsy" or less and who decides? (It isn't common for legal breathalyzers to be given right before leaving a bar or worse, right before entering a room for sex.) And second, what if they are both actually legally drunk? Wouldn't that negate the situation anyway since neither could actually give legal consent? They both would need to be charged or neither.
 
roguenuke said:
I always have two questions for the premise that drunk people cannot legally consent.

First, at what point is a person actually drunk and not just "tipsy" or less and who decides? (It isn't common for legal breathalyzers to be given right before leaving a bar or worse, right before entering a room for sex.) And second, what if they are both actually legally drunk? Wouldn't that negate the situation anyway since neither could actually give legal consent? They both would need to be charged or neither.
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That's what I've been trying to say too. I say neither because you are responsible for yourself and your actions. If a person goes home with strangers and has sex with them when drunk and doesn't like it, then that person shouldn't be drinking in the first place. It's all about personal responsibility. I would view it differently, of course, if one of the parties was passed out.
 
Imagine all the things you would be able to get out of if the simple fact that you were drunk meant you couldn't be held accountable for your actions.

For one thing, you couldn't be charged with DUI.

You could cheat on your spouse then claim you were raped because for god damned sake you were drunk.
You weren't accountable for your actions.

The list could get pretty long here....
 
Dragonfly said:
Imagine all the things you would be able to get out of if the simple fact that you were drunk meant you couldn't be held accountable for your actions.

For one thing, you couldn't be charged with DUI.

You could cheat on your spouse then claim you were raped because for god damned sake you were drunk.
You weren't accountable for your actions.

The list could get pretty long here....
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Horrible strawman. "Cannot give consent" is not even close to the same thing as "cannot assume responsibility."
 
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