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Non consentual sex is not rape

Is non concentual sex always rape

  • Yes, non concensual sex is always rape

    Votes: 47 79.7%

  • No, non concensual sex is not always rape

    Votes: 12 20.3%
  • Total voters
    59
Phys251 said:
People cannot legally give consent when drunk.
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Ahahahahaaaaaaaa........ now that's damn funny.

Have you any idea how many people you've now defined as having raped someone, or been raped themselves??????
 
This is a tough one because both parties could be "drunk" so how can you blame one or the other in that situation? I would say that if you're going to be drinking, to keep yourself under control and always be with at least one friend that you can trust. I would think that even if you're drunk, if you say "yes," it is not "non-consensual" and you have to always be careful when you've been drinking. You are ultimately responsible for your own actions, even if you've been drinking. Be an adult and drink in a responsible manner.
 
ChrisL said:
This is a tough one because both parties could be "drunk" so how can you blame one or the other in that situation? I would say that if you're going to be drinking, to keep yourself under control and always be with at least one friend that you can trust. I would think that even if you're drunk, if you say "yes," it is not "non-consensual" and you have to always be careful when you've been drinking. You are ultimately responsible for your own actions, even if you've been drinking. Be an adult and drink in a responsible manner.
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Drinking and then having sex is fine provided the other person is mobile, and coherent (ie not semi conscious or passed out). The minute the other person is passed out, or incoherent, then it moves into the rape category
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Drinking and then having sex is fine provided the other person is mobile, and coherent (ie not semi conscious or passed out). The minute the other person is passed out, or incoherent, then it moves into the rape category
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Yes, I would agree that if someone takes advantage of someone who is unconscious, that is definitely non-consensual, but I was referring to just two people who are drunk and might do things they would regret in the morning. :lol: You can really only blame yourself for that.
 
ChrisL said:
Yes, I would agree that if someone takes advantage of someone who is unconscious, that is definitely non-consensual, but I was referring to just two people who are drunk and might do things they would regret in the morning. :lol: You can really only blame yourself for that.
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True enough, getting drunk, willingly having sex and regretting it the next day is not rape, (just a bad decision)


If it was rape, would it not be mutual rape as both would most likely be drunk, or only if the guy the next day regretted it
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
True enough, getting drunk, willingly having sex and regretting it the next day is not rape, (just a bad decision)


If it was rape, would it not be mutual rape as both would most likely be drunk, or only if the guy the next day regretted it
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Or if both regret it. I'm sure that happens sometimes too! Lol! Drunk idiots will be drunk idiots.
 
earthworm said:
This is where things get awfully tough.
Define "drunk"
impossible.
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Not easy, but not impossible. One of the great challenges of the law is to establish objectivity in the case of subjectivity. It is not easy, but this in no way implies that it cannot be done. Otherwise, you might as well throw out all drunk driving laws in existence.

True rape is violent...there is no arising from a sleep and being confronted with a naked man...this is not a real rape , IMO.
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Whoa. You have some serious misconceptions about rape. Anything less than a clear "yes" from someone who is of sound mind, is a "no." Rape need not involve anything more than emotional coercion. If a woman doesn't want to have sex, but she lets the man inside her just so she can "get it over with," that is not consent. Sex minus consent equals rape. This is not a difficult concept.
 
Phys251 said:
Excuse me, sir. Rape is not funny. And drunk people cannot legally give consent.
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Drunk people have sex all the time. If the woman or the man says no, then I agree that it's rape, but if both have sex consensually, drunk or not, that is not rape. YOU are responsible for you and your own behavior when drinking.
 
ChrisL said:
Drunk people have sex all the time. If the woman or the man says no, then I agree that it's rape, but if both have sex consensually, drunk or not, that is not rape. YOU are responsible for you and your own behavior when drinking.
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Well, in that case, neither party is capable of giving consent. What happens next, legally, you tell me.

By the way. All this time we've been assuming it's a straight couple. Or a couple in the first place. What if one of those assumptions does not hold?
 
Phys251 said:
Well, in that case, neither party is capable of giving consent. What happens next, legally, you tell me.

By the way. All this time we've been assuming it's a straight couple. Or a couple in the first place. What if one of those assumptions does not hold?
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You are supposed to be in control of yourself. If you can't control yourself, then you shouldn't drink, and if you do decide to drink what you do is your own fault IMO.
 
ChrisL said:
You are supposed to be in control of yourself. If you can't control yourself, then you shouldn't drink, and if you do decide to drink what you do is your own fault IMO.
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And that is what we call, blaming the victim.
 
Phys251 said:
And that is what we call, blaming the victim.
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The law is somewhat open ended, partly because rape cases become "he said/she said" scenarios where hard evidence is elusive. We haven't gotten to the point where you have to get everything in writing or on tape.

Legally if two people are drunk and have sex their affirmation to have sex passes as consent. However, a sober person can't take a drunk person's affirmation to have sex as consent.

Its worth noting "consent" and "drunkenness" are broad concepts and that allegations of rape can be difficult to substantiate. Walking into someone's private residence of your own volition (not being held upright, carried, or assisted into the house) after a party can pass as consent because cultural norms maintain that such a protocol is a willful prelude to sex. Even if the visitor changes their mind afterward and tries to leave and gets raped, their case is much harder to prove because they went into the house of their own volition to start with in very incriminating circumstances. They can still win if they have evidence that the reason for entering the house had nothing to do with sex (which is determined from examining the situation, relationship, and people involved) or that they made a forceful effort to leave.
 
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Phys251 said:
Excuse me, sir. Rape is not funny. And drunk people cannot legally give consent.
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Point to where I said rape was funny. Quote it if you will.

So you're stance is that anyone who has ever had sex while "drunk" (please define drunk) has been raped.
You are also stating that anyone who has ever had sex with a "drunk" person is a rapist.

Which probably means that the vast majority of adults is a rapist AND a victim of rape as well based on your definition of rape.

Is that what you're saying?
Does that pretty much cover your stance here?

Black and white.
Drunk sex = non-consensual sex = rape.
Period.
Always.
100% of the time.
Always.
 
Phys251 said:
And that is what we call, blaming the victim.
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That's retarded, and here's why, which drunk person is the victim if both are drunk?
 
ChrisL said:
That's retarded, and here's why, which drunk person is the victim if both are drunk?
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I already answered that question.
 
Dragonfly said:
Point to where I said rape was funny. Quote it if you will.

So you're stance is that anyone who has ever had sex while "drunk" (please define drunk) has been raped.
You are also stating that anyone who has ever had sex with a "drunk" person is a rapist.

Which probably means that the vast majority of adults is a rapist AND a victim of rape as well based on your definition of rape.
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Then why didn't the Atlanta Public Schools think about using that defense during their standardized test scandal? If cheating includes changing students' answers, then how many of their teachers must be cheaters!

Is that what you're saying?
Does that pretty much cover your stance here?

Black and white.
Drunk sex = non-consensual sex = rape.
Period.
Always.
100% of the time.
Always.
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Where is your concern for the victim? Why do rape apologists almost always defend the perpetrator?
 
I just realized, I haven't answered the OP yet. And it turns out, it has very little to do with drunk sex.

sawyerloggingon said:
So according to Yale university non consensual sex is not always rape. I guess I'm old fashioned but I kinda thought non consensual sex was the definition of rape.

Yale University has found six students guilty of 'non-consensual sex' in the past six months and not one of them has been expelled from the prestigious Ivy League college, according to an official report.
Four of the perpetrators were given written reprimands after the victims reported the sexual assaults to staff, one student received probation and another was suspended for two semesters but will be free to return next year to graduate - with an Ivy League diploma.

Yale, which is based in New Haven, Connecticut, said it responded to a total of eight reports of sexual assault in the first half of 2013. The other two students were found not guilty of rape allegations, the school said.


Read more: Yale's sexual misconduct report does not mention rape instead referring to it as 'non-consensual sex' - a crime they punish with just a written reprimand | Mail Online
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Outrageous, but not surprising. I don't think that there's a violent crime in existence that is justified as much as rape.
 
Phys251 said:
Then why didn't the Atlanta Public Schools think about using that defense during their standardized test scandal? If cheating includes changing students' answers, then how many of their teachers must be cheaters!



Where is your concern for the victim? Why do rape apologists almost always defend the perpetrator?
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Oh lookie.

An attempt at a complete deflection and end-run around and/or away from actually answering any of my questions.

Nice.

Now, how's about you try again.

Is anyone who has ever had sex with a legally drunk person a rapist?
Is everyone who ever had sex while being legally drunk been raped?

Always.
Without question.
Black and white.
Always.
Regardless of any other extenuating circumstances.
Regardless of situation.

If you're legally drunk and having sex you're being raped.
If you're having sex with a legally drunk person, you are raping that person.

That's your position on this without question?
 
sawyerloggingon said:
So according to Yale university non consensual sex is not always rape.
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I think...yes and no.

I guess I'm old fashioned but I kinda thought non consensual sex was the definition of rape.
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Well...no, depending on where you live the actual definition can vary.
 
herenow1 said:
CRAP! 61 complaints from Jan-June?! That's really bad! Oh and I guess they are called ''complaints'' now and not allegations or accusations.
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I heard about this problem too. Rape at universities in USA is frequent is it not?
 
DDD said:
I heard about this problem too. Rape at universities in USA is frequent is it not?
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First time young adults are truly "on their own", an unlimited supply of drugs and alcohol, peer pressure, and you've got a mix of ingredients that will often times lead to nasty stuff.

I'm sure the rather archaic drinking age laws in the USofA play a gigantic role in all that.

But I also think the media and hollywood and society in general are partly to blame.

So much raunchy and ridiculous behavior is glorified that kids think it's truly a natural part of growing up.
 
Phys251 said:
I already answered that question.
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Well since we are well into the 100s in terms of posts, how about you direct me to the post by post number, or just quote it for me please. :)
 
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