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Non consentual sex is not rape

Is non concentual sex always rape

  • Yes, non concensual sex is always rape

    Votes: 47 79.7%

  • No, non concensual sex is not always rape

    Votes: 12 20.3%
  • Total voters
    59
sawyerloggingon said:
So according to Yale university non consensual sex is not always rape. I guess I'm old fashioned but I kinda thought non consensual sex was the definition of rape.

Yale University has found six students guilty of 'non-consensual sex' in the past six months and not one of them has been expelled from the prestigious Ivy League college, according to an official report.
Four of the perpetrators were given written reprimands after the victims reported the sexual assaults to staff, one student received probation and another was suspended for two semesters but will be free to return next year to graduate - with an Ivy League diploma.

Yale, which is based in New Haven, Connecticut, said it responded to a total of eight reports of sexual assault in the first half of 2013. The other two students were found not guilty of rape allegations, the school said.


Read more: Yale's sexual misconduct report does not mention rape instead referring to it as 'non-consensual sex' - a crime they punish with just a written reprimand | Mail Online
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I don't consider all non-consensual sex to be rape. I think that there are various kinds of non-consensual sex, some of which are worse crimes than others, and I don't think a blanket term for all of them is a good thing.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
So according to Yale university non consensual sex is not always rape.
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Really? Because nothing in your article suggest that "according to Yale University non-conesusal sex is not always rape". Actually, it even notes that only 2 of the 8 students were found "not guilty" of "rape allegations", suggesting clearly that the other 6 were found guilty of "rape allegatoins".

Non-consensual sex is pretty much the generalized definition of what rape is.

Hard to really take an argument seriously when you are patentedly dishonest and misleading from sentence 1.
 
Zyphlin said:
Really? Because nothing in your article suggest that "according to Yale University non-conesusal sex is not always rape". Actually, it even notes that only 2 of the 8 students were found "not guilty" of "rape allegations", suggesting clearly that the other 6 were found guilty of "rape allegatoins".

Non-consensual sex is pretty much the generalized definition of what rape is.

Hard to really take an argument seriously when you are patentedly dishonest and misleading from sentence 1.
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Yale saying non-consensual sex is not always rape was my honest interpretation of their policy. If you see it different all you have to do is express your opinion on the subject. I agree with you that non-consensual sex is the definition of rape so why is Yale giving a slap on the wrist to some of those that do it. I find your confrontational attitude on this to be a bit disheartening coming from a mod that is supposed to enforce the civility is a must rule. Now back to the subject you tried to derail with your personal attack.

•Yale University has found six students guilty of 'non-consensual sex' in the past six months and not one of them has been expelled from the prestigious Ivy League college
•Four of the perpetrators were given written reprimands, one student received probation and another was suspended for two semesters
•Sexual assault victims are outraged at the university's approach to dealing with students found guilty of 'non-consensual sex'
 
jamesrage said:
One of the things that make rape rape is the fact it is non-consensual sex. I think the school is trying to hide crimes in order to protect its image.[/QUOTE]

I think you and a few others have hit the nail on the head here. Seems so obvious after someone says it and has me wondering why I didn't immediately see it.:doh
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Of course, "non-consensual" rape is NOT brutal-assault rape , obviously, this should be common sense..
There has to be a difference...
Same with stealing....or man slaughter....
Rape, with the intent to hurt and to have NO feelings is IMO, a felony.
Non-con is much "milder", the feelings are still there, thus ...a misdemeanor, IMO.
 
Rainman05 said:
They're all a bunch of sneaky, dirty lawyer people. So of course they'll weasel themselves into one definion or another.
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Maybe it indeed depends on defitinitions ... what if one party assumed it was consensual, as the other party claimed it indeed was in the act, but legally, that other party was not fully responsible due to drug/alcohol use?

I guess that's a grey area. Maybe legally, the second party could claim lack of responsibility or capacity to consent, but it's doubtful the first party was able to recognize that.
 
WCH said:
How many cases actually involve the woman as the rapist?

And shouldn't there be an option for *only if someone complains*?
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After watching an episode of the Kardashians where Kourtney wanted to strap on a dildo and ram her boyfriend in the backside, why can't women get men drunk and take advantage of men in the same way?
Would that be considered rape to quote Kourtney, 'Open him up like a melon?'
 
molten_dragon said:
I don't consider all non-consensual sex to be rape. I think that there are various kinds of non-consensual sex, some of which are worse crimes than others, ......
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such as?
 
Dragonfly said:
If a girl that would never say "yes" to sex with some random dude gets pretty damn drunk, like to the point where she doesn't remember a few hours from the previous night, and says "yes" to sex during that drunken night, then wakes up the next morning with a naked guy she doesn't know from Adam, was she raped?

Suppose there's nobody around to confirm or deny that she said "yes" to sex but the guy, who was also quite drunk at the time?

Plenty of people saw them making out and grinding each other on the dance floor, and plenty saw them leave together, and then enter the girls dorm.
But nobody knows what happened once they entered the girl's room and closed the door.

She just woke up and found a naked guy lying next to her, and she states emphatically that she did NOT consent to sex.

The guy swears not only did she say "yes", but she initiated the sex.

He said/she said.

Rape?
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It seems to me that if a woman believes she has been raped, then the proper action would be to file an immediate police report. NOT to the "campus police" but with the REAL police for that local area. I would have also thought that most young women brought up today would know that already.

Problem is, at times such an accusation is based upon circumstances exactly as you describe; OR sometimes they are a reaction several days after the fact to a young man not returning any further interest in the young lady and so she reports him.

Again, if she believes she was truly raped, then contact the local police or sheriff and take it from there. :)
 
sawyerloggingon said:
•Yale University has found six students guilty of 'non-consensual sex' in the past six months and not one of them has been expelled from the prestigious Ivy League college
•Four of the perpetrators were given written reprimands, one student received probation and another was suspended for two semesters
•Sexual assault victims are outraged at the university's approach to dealing with students found guilty of 'non-consensual sex'
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What it looks like to me is that they got complaints and the facts don't exactly provide for a charge of "rape" but they have chosen to do something anyway so they came up with "non-consensual sex".
 
lolabird said:
After watching an episode of the Kardashians where Kourtney wanted to strap on a dildo and ram her boyfriend in the backside, why can't women get men drunk and take advantage of men in the same way?
Would that be considered rape to quote Kourtney, 'Open him up like a melon?'
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I guess that answers my question. :shock:
 
earthworm said:
Of course, "non-consensual" rape is NOT brutal-assault rape , obviously, this should be common sense..
There has to be a difference...
Same with stealing....or man slaughter....
Rape, with the intent to hurt and to have NO feelings is IMO, a felony.
Non-con is much "milder", the feelings are still there, thus ...a misdemeanor, IMO.
Click to expand...

I agree on degrees of rape just like degrees of murder but in the end it is still rape.
 
Captain Adverse said:
It seems to me that if a woman believes she has been raped, then the proper action would be to file an immediate police report. NOT to the "campus police" but with the REAL police for that local area. I would have also thought that most young women brought up today would know that already.

Problem is, at times such an accusation is based upon circumstances exactly as you describe; OR sometimes they are a reaction several days after the fact to a young man not returning any further interest in the young lady and so she reports him.

Again, if she believes she was truly raped, then contact the local police or sheriff and take it from there. :)
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I was wondering the same thing. why is Yale passing out punishment for what should be in our court system?
 
Captain Adverse said:
It seems to me that if a woman believes she has been raped, then the proper action would be to file an immediate police report. NOT to the "campus police" but with the REAL police for that local area. I would have also thought that most young women brought up today would know that already.

Problem is, at times such an accusation is based upon circumstances exactly as you describe; OR sometimes they are a reaction several days after the fact to a young man not returning any further interest in the young lady and so she reports him.

Again, if she believes she was truly raped, then contact the local police or sheriff and take it from there. :)
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It appears that many institutions are most interested in covering up rape accusations than enforcing the law. Which is why it is best to contact the local police, not the campus or military police.
 
For some reason I am thinking the words the university is using (Non-Consensual sex) is misleading, otherwise it would just be called rape. I would be curious what is considered non consensual sex. Interesting that people are jumping to the conclusion that these were rapes though.
 
Can the authorities not jail them for a lot of year so that they will not be able to attend that school in the (say) next 10 years?
 
Yale’s standard of consent is extremely rigorous (Yale requires clear and unambiguous consent at every stage of a sexual encounter), but even with the involvement of an independent fact-finder, it is often difficult to ascertain the circumstances of a complaint beyond what the complainant and the respondent report. As I know from my prior experience as dean of Yale College, in some cases, all parties may agree on what words were spoken but disagree on whether those words constituted clear consent. In many cases, the complainant and respondent come to altogether different understandings of what transpired. In too many cases, excessive alcohol consumption blurs memory.
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Yale Prez Wants Definition of ‘Nonconsensual Sex’ | Capitol Watch

Just like every university across the country, there is a war on males. Which is one of the reasons fewer and fewer men are attending college. Notice that they have what basically ends up being nearly a written contract a male must get from a female student to legally have sex with her or else he is probably raping her. At least that is what it seems by the above statement. It also seems that what many males have been charged with as of late has such a vague and open interpretation that the even the president is calling saying that he can't define what it is.

Basically, if you are a young male, you are under attack. If you want to attain an education, better not even think about having sex with a female your going to school with. Better to be safe then sorry and focus on your education then get your balls in a sling like many of these other poor guys have. There are rapists out there that really do deserve jail time, but it seems they have widened the definition of what constitutes rape so far that it is beginning to ruin a lot of young men.
 
in general the answer is no not all non-consensual sex is rape

like everything it depends on the circumstances. :shrug:


one time my girlfriend was mad at me and she was drunk, we were having an argument and she specifically told me that were were not having sex when we got home and she said dont go "boyfriend molesting" me after i pass out either lol

well after she passed out i boyfriend molested her lol she wasnt unconscious just in a drinking haze lol

the next morning she wakes up and shes naked and shes like "hey i told you we weren't having sex!"

i responded "well your cupcake disagreed with you, she wanted me and she squirted everywhere so you must of liked it!"

she giggled and said "your a jerk", then we had more sex.

anyway i factually participated in non-consensual sex, ask the girl if she thinks im a rapist, shell gladly tell you no. :)

BUT my story has nothing to do with the story in the OP, im just pointing out that the answer to the poll question is no and it is in fact circumstantial.
 
AGENT J said:
in general the answer is no not all non-consensual sex is rape

like everything it depends on the circumstances. :shrug:


one time my girlfriend was mad at me and she was drunk, we were having an argument and she specifically told me that were were not having sex when we got home and she said dont go "boyfriend molesting" me after i pass out either lol

well after she passed out i boyfriend molested her lol she wasnt unconscious just in a drinking haze lol

the next morning she wakes up and shes naked and shes like "hey i told you we weren't having sex!"

i responded "well your cupcake disagreed with you, she wanted me and she squirted everywhere so you must of liked it!"

she giggled and said "your a jerk", then we had more sex.

anyway i factually participated in non-consensual sex, ask the girl if she thinks im a rapist, shell gladly tell you no. :)

BUT my story has nothing to do with the story in the OP, im just pointing out that the answer to the poll question is no and it is in fact circumstantial.
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tumblr_m0v86oIOXA1r4ntuq.gif
 
May I hold your hand? Yes

May I hug you? Yes

May I kiss you? Yes

May I...etc, etc, etc

Oh, and be sure to video the whole thing and test her for alcohol and drugs
 
sawyerloggingon said:
It's all rape though.
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NO
Things are far more complicated than that.
We are dealing with humans, not machines
Emotions matter, even rule the day.
We just have to figure out a better way of judging situations..
And, as is well known, or should be, rape is NOT just plain sex, its violence..
IMO, a big difference.
 
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