View Poll Results: Is non concentual sex always rape

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  • Yes, non concensual sex is always rape

    56 77.78%
  • No, non concensual sex is not always rape

    16 22.22%
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Thread: Non consentual sex is not rape

  1. #71
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    Re: Non consentual sex is not rape

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Just out of curiosity what would you call it if A man passed out drunk and another man had anal intercourse with him? You might want to think about that.
    There is a major difference between being passed out and just feces-faced drunk.

  2. #72
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    Re: Non consentual sex is not rape

    Nobody else here has ever known anyone who gets so intoxicated that they do things completely out of character?
    Then the next day, they deny having any knowledge or recollection of having done those things?

  3. #73
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    Re: Non consensual sex is not rape

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Good point
    This is something that should be set and decided by a panel of 6 women and 4 men...
    I doubt if any college is ran in this manner...it could even be 10 men...0.0 women...
    A man does not know what it feels like to be raped...he cannot possibly know..
    I voted in the minority...this time..
    I am of the old school.....get her drunk and she is yours.......
    The "old school" was NOT good, particularly for women and minorities...
    And schools are constantly changing.
    Bull. Men are rape victims, even some having women rape them. This belief that men cannot be raped by a woman is just plain wrong. It can happen and does happen.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  4. #74
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    Re: Non consensual sex is not rape

    Story from the boat.

    When I first got to the ship there was a female electrician in my berthing who had just been transferred from another carrier. She had been transferred for making a false rape accusation. She was a lesbian. Her and her girlfriend had a fight one day and she went to a bar where a bunch of the guys she works with on the ship hangout. She was flirting with one of those guys who eventually took her home. They had been drinking about the same amount and were tipsy but not really drunk. They had sex, but the next day, she made up with her girlfriend. She said the guy had raped her because she was too drunk to consent to sex. The other guys that were in the bar though swore that neither were really drunk and she was definitely enticing the guy for sex. During questioning (it hadn't left the department yet), she broke down and confessed that she had lied about it so that she wouldn't get into trouble with her girlfriend (as a nuke, unless something was officially in a record, DADT was detrimental to our manning so it was avoided if at all possible). This came directly from her. She told me this is what happened.

    We had to have training just recently about sexual assault on top of our annual training. And I want to tell you it pisses me off when civilians criticize the military for our record on sexual assault or harassment when I am willing to bet we do better than the civilian world overall because in general, a guy accused of any sexual assault or sexual harassment is considered guilty until proven innocent (which disgusts me to no end). I was livid about this point in that training. It ticked me off when they said that people should suspend their belief that a person wouldn't do that. I consider testimony on people's character to be important. Are there some who would use their known good reputation to do bad things? Sure. But there are also a lot of guys who wouldn't do such things and who some women (or even other guys) may take advantage of the fact that the rules favor that very fact that character of the perpetrator is completely ignored when an accusation is made. This is why it scares me to have my husband go anywhere with women he works with alone. There simply is always that chance that one of those women may be the kind that tries to make a false accusation and his career would be ruined, even if it comes out as a false accusation.

    Now, as a woman in the military as well, I know that most women really wouldn't make false accusations. But it only takes that one who would to ruin a career. The same could very well be true for college students, particularly those in such an influential college. Some of these girls could just have been shunned by the guy and want revenge. Maybe he was using her for a one night stand and she feels dirty. Or maybe they were both drunk and she regretted sleeping with him. Or maybe they really were taken advantage of. Those who are truly victimized I feel sorry for, but unfortunately, this is why we have to be cautious about what we do and who we hang out with. It is just as bad for the guy who is falsely accused and loses his dreams in life because of that accusation as it is for the woman who was raped. But just going off of the information given, it seems that these were definitely more likely to be cases of "he said, she said" drunken encounters.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #75
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    Re: Non consentual sex is not rape

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    If a girl that would never say "yes" to sex with some random dude gets pretty damn drunk, like to the point where she doesn't remember a few hours from the previous night, and says "yes" to sex during that drunken night, then wakes up the next morning with a naked guy she doesn't know from Adam, was she raped?
    Yes.

    Suppose there's nobody around to confirm or deny that she said "yes" to sex but the guy, who was also quite drunk at the time?
    People cannot legally give consent when drunk. Nearly every rapist who has ever lived was a male.

    Plenty of people saw them making out and grinding each other on the dance floor, and plenty saw them leave together, and then enter the girls dorm.
    But nobody knows what happened once they entered the girl's room and closed the door.

    She just woke up and found a naked guy lying next to her, and she states emphatically that she did NOT consent to sex.

    The guy swears not only did she say "yes", but she initiated the sex.

    He said/she said.

    Rape?
    Except, that's not how it tends to go down. Rape is a choice.
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  6. #76
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    Re: Non consensual sex is not rape

    I think the issue here, at least for me, is the word "always".

    Does it make logical and intelligent sense to assume that every person who makes a charge of rape against another person is always telling the truth? Beyond a reasonable doubt?
    Always?

    There is NEVER a time when somebody might have "consented" during the moment, only to change that story the next day, or a few days later?

    Nobody ever lies about being a victim of rape?

    Nobody is ever falsely accused of rape?

    DNA test reverses 30-year-old rape conviction | theGrio

    Man's rape conviction overturned after DNA testing : Wsj

    Texas man's conviction overturned after 24 years - Los Angeles Times

    Ex-Poly standout has rape and kidnapping conviction reversed

    Tawana Brawley starts paying man she falsely accused of rape in 1987 - CNN.com

    No means no. Period.
    Unconscious does not mean yes. Absolutely.

    However, I can foresee some situations where charging another human being with rape based on circumstances and situations might not be warranted.

    Imagine being involved in a consensual one-night stand, and then two days later having the police arrest you for rape.
    She says you raped her. You know you didn't.
    How in hell's bells would you "prove" your innocence?

    Her word against yours.

    Are you automatically guilty just because she says you raped her?

  7. #77
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    Re: Non consensual sex is not rape

    And we wonder why known rape survivors don't take their case to court.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

  8. #78
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    Re: Non consensual sex is not rape

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Story from the boat.

    When I first got to the ship there was a female electrician in my berthing who had just been transferred from another carrier. She had been transferred for making a false rape accusation. She was a lesbian. Her and her girlfriend had a fight one day and she went to a bar where a bunch of the guys she works with on the ship hangout. She was flirting with one of those guys who eventually took her home. They had been drinking about the same amount and were tipsy but not really drunk. They had sex, but the next day, she made up with her girlfriend. She said the guy had raped her because she was too drunk to consent to sex. The other guys that were in the bar though swore that neither were really drunk and she was definitely enticing the guy for sex. During questioning (it hadn't left the department yet), she broke down and confessed that she had lied about it so that she wouldn't get into trouble with her girlfriend (as a nuke, unless something was officially in a record, DADT was detrimental to our manning so it was avoided if at all possible). This came directly from her. She told me this is what happened.

    We had to have training just recently about sexual assault on top of our annual training. And I want to tell you it pisses me off when civilians criticize the military for our record on sexual assault or harassment when I am willing to bet we do better than the civilian world overall because in general, a guy accused of any sexual assault or sexual harassment is considered guilty until proven innocent (which disgusts me to no end). I was livid about this point in that training. It ticked me off when they said that people should suspend their belief that a person wouldn't do that. I consider testimony on people's character to be important. Are there some who would use their known good reputation to do bad things? Sure. But there are also a lot of guys who wouldn't do such things and who some women (or even other guys) may take advantage of the fact that the rules favor that very fact that character of the perpetrator is completely ignored when an accusation is made. This is why it scares me to have my husband go anywhere with women he works with alone. There simply is always that chance that one of those women may be the kind that tries to make a false accusation and his career would be ruined, even if it comes out as a false accusation.

    Now, as a woman in the military as well, I know that most women really wouldn't make false accusations. But it only takes that one who would to ruin a career. The same could very well be true for college students, particularly those in such an influential college. Some of these girls could just have been shunned by the guy and want revenge. Maybe he was using her for a one night stand and she feels dirty. Or maybe they were both drunk and she regretted sleeping with him. Or maybe they really were taken advantage of. Those who are truly victimized I feel sorry for, but unfortunately, this is why we have to be cautious about what we do and who we hang out with. It is just as bad for the guy who is falsely accused and loses his dreams in life because of that accusation as it is for the woman who was raped. But just going off of the information given, it seems that these were definitely more likely to be cases of "he said, she said" drunken encounters.
    This makes me really wish I had considered JAG. I wouldn't have quit until she had enough charges stick to get her a DD and a blackball on every future resumé.

  9. #79
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    Re: Non consentual sex is not rape

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    So according to Yale university non consensual sex is not always rape. I guess I'm old fashioned but I kinda thought non consensual sex was the definition of rape.

    Yale University has found six students guilty of 'non-consensual sex' in the past six months and not one of them has been expelled from the prestigious Ivy League college, according to an official report.

    Four of the perpetrators were given written reprimands after the victims reported the sexual assaults to staff, one student received probation and another was suspended for two semesters but will be free to return next year to graduate - with an Ivy League diploma.

    Yale, which is based in New Haven, Connecticut, said it responded to a total of eight reports of sexual assault in the first half of 2013. The other two students were found not guilty of rape allegations, the school said.


    Read more: Yale's sexual misconduct report does not mention rape instead referring to it as 'non-consensual sex' - a crime they punish with just a written reprimand | Mail Online



    I guess that it all depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is, eh?

  10. #80
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    Re: Non consentual sex is not rape

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    It's all rape though.
    Not in my opinion. I think rape is too broad a term for a number of different crimes.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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